Status Ailment Strings Edit

Some random descriptions from the game memory, i've never seen them while playing the XBOX version, no clue if they appear somewhere on the PC:

  • Body turning to stone. Any damage taken causes instant KO.
  • Engulfed in flames. Flame defense = 0. Always act last.
  • Struck by lightning. Thunder defense = 0. No Trigger Chances.
  • Covered in ice. Frost defense = 0. Extra Hit limited to 1.
  • Able to absorb physical damage for a set number of turns.
  • Able to absorb mystic damage for a set number of turns.
  • Throat is stopped can't make a sound! Can't cast mystic arts.
  • Hit by bad juju. Every action has the chance of instant death!
  • Attracting attention. All enemies will target this union.
  • Army's morale very high. Stats boosted, deal 2x damage.
  • Union's morale very low. Stats cut, Trigger Chance at 50%.
  • Union members are hit by a curse. AP charges more slowly.
  • Unconscious, no physical resistance. Cannot act or react until turn ends.
  • Covered by a mystic wall that fully blocks a single physical attack.
  • Covered by an enchanted wall that fully blocks a single mystic attack.
  • Concentrating on defending. Damage received this turn is halved.
  • Critical failure! Formations bonuses negated. Temporarily unable to act.
  • Body's gone pins and needles and won't move or use combat arts.
  • Weakened by a fast-acting poison. HP and AP take damage each turn.
  • Bewitched until the end of battle to see the enemy as friend and you as foe.
  • Union's morale very high. Stats boosted, 150% likelihood of Trigger Chance.
  • Union members are blessed with energy. AP charges more quickly.
  • Weapons imbued with power. Unit's physical/mystic attack power up.
  • Weapons weakened by a curse. Unit's physical/mystic attack power down.
  • Weapons fortified with strength. Unit's physical/mystic defense up.
  • Weapons weakened by a curse. Unit's physical/mystic defense down.
  • Weapons blessed with lightness. Unit's physical/mystic evasion up.
  • Weapons weighed down with evil. Unit's physical/mystic evasion down.

Unimplemented status help? Drake178 18:14, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

Either that or comments/debug strings! You probably find there are lots of strings that are never actually used unless a debug routine is called! Interesting to say the least, I actually kind of wish now that they used them because they tell a story that otherwise wouldn't have been told to new players. I have a hunch about Morale Control from reading those strings. It probably raises trigger chance to 150% at normal union morale, 100% at low union morale, 200% at max union morale. That would make perfect sense. Mikeyakame 01:43, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Base Actions Edit

Although it doesn't quite work as i thought, byte 0x50h in the art record is the base action type. Here's the ones for the characters, might help with figuring out the monster arts:

Base actions:

1E - Weapon Art
	Includes every unit/union target unique art, Rush's Omnistrike,
	Hundred Flowers, Brawl, Dual Snowpetal, etc.

1F - Combat Art, One-Handed
20 - Combat Art, Power Grip
21 - Combat Art, Dual Wield
22 - Combat Art, Two-Handed
23 - Combat Art, Quad Wield
24 - Combat Art, Dual Power Grip
25 - Combat Art, Dual Two-Handed

28 - Battlefield Unique Art
	includes Snowblind, Zeal's Virtue, Megalore, etc.

29 - Mystic Art, Offensive, Invocations
2A - Mystic Art, Offensive, Evocations
2B - Mystic Art, Offensive, Hexes
2C - Mystic Art, Offensive, Remedies (not used)
2D - Mystic Art, Offensive, Psionics
2E - Mystic Art, Offensive, Wards (not used)

2F - Mystic Art, Offensive, Arcana

32 - Revive
	includes all revival Arts, regardless of type (ie. both Mystic and Item)

50 - Mystic Art, Healing

52 - Item Art, Attack
59 - Item Art, Healing

65 - Cachexia
68 - Rejuvenating Water
6E - Seduction
79 - Dispirit, Bewitch
7A - Addle, Phantom Pain

A0 - Buff
	includes everything that gives a positive status, Mystic/Item/Unique/Weapon
	Stealth, Decoy, Wards, etc are all here

A1 - Status Attack (no damage)
	only used by Stun Trap 
A2 - Status Removal 
	Refresh, Rejuvenate, Antivenin, Throat Salve, Invirogation Cream

AA - Morale Up (Self)
	Cheer, Rousing Flare
AB - Morale Down (Target)
	Bluff, Mixed Message, Retreat Flare, Pandora's Box

There are two oddballs. Gae Bolg is classed 1E, Weapon Art. Irina's Omnistrike is classed 28, Battlefield Art. And no, i didn't confuse them :P Drake178 22:10, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Come to think of it, Dual Snowpetal up there at 1E is an oddball too. Drake178 22:16, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Alright man, i am having a few problems understanding some stuff - i left a message on Drakes page if you can read it and give me any pointers much appreciated. To give an update i am BR 54 now, fought 5 sets of 20 groups of landworms worth 99 single enemies each set. My battle chain is 744 now. My 2 main questions are: How do i learn new skills?, do i boost my level III or continue to use my level V hoping to trigger a mystic chance? Also should i fight enemies 1 by 1 now my chain is so high or continue with linking 20 landworms. Also to note my BR hasn't changed from linking 5 sets so far.KingMagaw 23:50, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

need some help Edit

On this website it shows positions or coordinates.

I havent played in awhile and i cant remember if its a way to toggle the coordinates in gameplay or if its a map somewhere else.

Co-ordinates on the walkthrough normally refer to a map! If you are reading a rare spawns at A-4 - then click where it spawns like Aveclyff and use the co-ordinate there!--KingMagaw 21:33, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

Im doing The Assistant quest and need parasitic oil. I havent played the game in 6 months. Im using this website to help.

How do i find D-7 to get them?

Sometimes it takes story/sidequest events to unlock certain dig points in my experience - not sure how to unlock your specific one - best chance do some side missions in that immediate area or do the next story mission. The pro's probably help you more!--KingMagaw 23:44, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

A proposition... Edit

I'm sorry if I sounded any mean about complex tools (no offence was intended). I think you're dealing with a lot of information and it's difficult to do it alone so I wanted you to know that I can help with anything of little interest to you (like parsing CSVs or updating many similar infoboxes or anything else). I've got a work that is not required to be done right now, and my deadline is not officialy set (but it still exists) so sometimes I'm getting tired of thinking/writing and I need some other work. In these hours I wake up Photoshop or do something else. If I can help with anything, just drop a message, ok? --Ngng 19:07, September 30, 2009 (UTC)

Sure! I'll see what I can find for you to do! Monsters need all drops/splits/captions added/fixed/infobox's cleaned up. I'm not sure if you were adding the wrong caption line in the monster infobox, it was something like kitchen = "caption here".

There is all the data you should need to clean those up! I can give you arts table if you really like, but it won't be that clean/readable unfortunately! This signature was complements of the chef! 21:40, September 30, 2009 (UTC)

Ah, I've tried to use esclipse editor and it turned out that it requires Java runtime. :( Ah... I'm a bit don't like Java because it always tries to update or otherwise remind of its presence in the system. I'll download runtime later. What are the benefits of using this offline editor (apart from the comfort without the problems with the edit window (which are severe in my IE8))?
So I'm gonna be hunting for the monster drops very soon! :) Cool!
Also I wanted to ask what should we do with "A captured Albic Qsiti. It can be sold at a high price and is best used for pikliz.". Am I to add them all to caption var (erasing some of the current captions) or is it better to add them somewhere else? I can go with either way. --Ngng 08:09, October 1, 2009 (UTC)

I've been using caption, because unless the monster has a proper description string (which I don't think any do) the caption of their name is pointless because the page title already displays it! Most I've seen were doing one job twice, in my opinion that's unnecessary clutter if the title says the same as the caption. If there are no captions for certain monsters which can't be captured, I'll leave that at your discretion.This signature was complements of the chef! 08:24, October 1, 2009 (UTC)

Yes, I agree. My only concern was for captions that describe the picture (stating the shot location, etc.). Ok, I'm gonna update all captions with the current info + erase all my "kitchen note"s and any notes about captured monsters left on the pages. --Ngng 09:03, October 1, 2009 (UTC)

Sorry, a small additional note before I will proceed. I take it that every line of this file (I mean monsters_drops.xlsx) is a possible combination of a drop for a certain monster. I will need to divide the number of appearance of each component by the number of drop combinations per monster to find the chance of the drop for this component. Am I right? And do we have to store the amount of drop somewhere or is it not that important? --Ngng 17:23, October 1, 2009 (UTC)

Don't worry too much about the min drop amount, I tried putting them up a while ago and copped an earful about it :D They aren't really all that necessary though, as chance is the more important value. How many you get varies so it'd probably end up with people saying "BUT HEY I GOT 3 IT ONLY SAYS 2 WHY YOU LIE FOR ?!#*$U*#$" heh, you know the drill :D What I was doing with Monsters with multiple drop sets, is adding a drop note to the special drops that only can be found in one location and not any other, if a drop can be sourced from one monster at more than one location then it might not be worth putting a note for that drop. This signature was complements of the chef! 18:22, October 1, 2009 (UTC)

On another note I think it was you who was asking about the Monster HP values, if so I've mapped out the Static Monster table but there are no real HP values in the table. All the stats other than HP look like they should be correct, but what you have in the Monster records is a Base HP value, which is nothing more than a value which is most likely scaled by the code itself depending on Battle Rank and possibly some other conditions. Take The True Conqueror Rank 8 for example, his base HP is ~25,500, which is the highest I saw I think, Demigod has 500-1000 less than him, but basically unless Drake178 is able to figure out how the code adjusts the HP, and we can replicate the function on the Base HP to get the Battle HP it is pretty much a lost cause for the time being. The static character table has base values for all stats but in their case there is a dynamic table built when you start a new game which is built from the static table with the base values adjusted for a unit's Battle Rank and possibly the point in the story line they can be hired. If I can figure something out I'll let you know, but for the time being I won't be putting much time into it. I rather Drake178 look over the code first and then we'll go from there. This signature was complements of the chef! 18:36, October 1, 2009 (UTC)

I've mentioned the possibility of spawning for each monster set in a certain location not the monster HP. HPs are not that important they can fluctuate greatly for each case. Althought it can be useful to know the formula to compute the real HP for a given case I think the average user will be quite happy with the rough HPs values (as they are now). At least I was happy enough to know that this %%%% (I mean wondrous) Demigod has ~1.2M HPs when I was trying to kick his back. --Ngng 18:54, October 1, 2009 (UTC)

I'm looking to the table more closely now and I can see that I lack some info here... For example if I take Jhana Fighter in monsters.xlsx it has 29 useful entries on it. But only 7 of them are from the ordinary Jhana Fighter and the others are from the boss fight (in Jhana Royals I suppose). So I'd have to skip all the entries with "HasUnknownHP" set to yes. Futhermore lets take this Grand Rockgrater guy who has 5 useful entries 2 of which are only useful for The Ancient Ruins. So initially I thought that "Field 000B" or "Field 000F" or "Field 0014" mark the location. I tried to sort the table by "Field 000B" to see what monster sets it can bring... No luck here -- there were only strange combinations mostly unrelated to each other by location but related somehow to the monster class. "Field 000F" and "Field 0014" were also of no use. So I can only think that these fields are the keys to link this datasheet to another with locations info or maybe they are used to trigger some arts. Sadly I cannot distinguish drop sets by locations here I can only leave location notes be on their pages when I'll update them. Do you have some more info on monster dropset locations? --Ngng 06:33, October 2, 2009 (UTC)

I still haven't quite figured out how the grid locations/maps are referenced by the code for different monsters. My current dilemma is I can't find what looks even remotely like cross-referencing to locations, better yet I can't even find a table that handles the string lookup/x-reference for any of the locations whether it be on the world map or inside towns. I have some theories to which tables might handle the data <-> engine translation, but the values in the tables have both Drake and myself scratching our heads because the hex values are not master string lookups and are way too large to cross-reference any memory data tables, we are talking values of F000h + (> 61000), and no table has near that many records, hell not even close! We expect they probably get handled through different sub routines in the main code to do things like translate and handle file pointers to textures/models/etc, and such. Who knows though, but there are quite a few fields in some of the tables we have no clue about at all, even in a table where we've mapped out 98% of it we get stuck with unknowns fields that have no relevance to the data but are more than likely reference/redirect/pointer move ids which are checked for by the core code.
None of the location based data in memory tables hold any grid points, so what I've been doing so far is just mapping them out as accurately as possible. If the monsters table is still in its original sorting order, then the order of rows will be with respect to the progress of the game, and when areas are unlocked. Take a look at the Mr Diggs tables on my use page, they both have the correct location unlocking order in them. That monsters table should roughly follow them, and if not might give you a better idea on their spawn locations. This signature was complements of the chef! 06:53, October 2, 2009 (UTC)

Thanks! Ok, I think it's decided for now that the drop locations on monster pages aren't to be touched. I may also give you my thoughts on this table: "Field 114": does look like a bitmask of some sort or better yet like two byte fields. "Field 000F" may also be two byte fields but related to one another. "Field 000B" is too hard to analyse on it's own. All three are connected unlike the others in this table. I guess I'd take a look at the original binary file if you dont mind as it can bring some additional thoughts (but not now, in some future days). If there's something too difficult to comprehend it must be that we're using some flawed approach. --Ngng 07:38, October 2, 2009 (UTC)

Here's an updated spreadsheet with most of the fields labelled, the effect ones are just guesses but they look right so far.

That Field 000B was slightly out, it's actually offset 0xC and the value there is the Base HP, its 4 bytes in size. Following it are all the starting stats.

0x0C = Base HP (4 bytes) 0x10 = Base AP (1 byte) 0x11 = Base AP Charge (1 byte) 0x12 = Unused (2 bytes) 0x14 = Base Strength (1 byte) 0x15 = Base Intellect (1 byte) 0x16 = Base Speed (1 byte) 0x17 = Base Unique Stat (1 byte) 0x18 = Cross-Ref to Unique Stat lookup table, they all use the generic Battle Style unique stat. (2 bytes) 0x1A = No idea, but most likely the 28h and 14h are individual values (40 and 20) and are Unit Battle Rank Diff Compensation modifier values to give much larger range of scaling. Normal character records use 1 byte for that, and is in the 4 bytes before the BR Difference scaling map points, which are the following 6 sets of values, ( BRDiffPoint + Divisor + Dividend ).

The rest is pretty much self explanatory, the only values I am still scratching my head over are the ones in the vicinity of the fields I have effect string ids mapped to. As I mentioned mapping those was a stab in the dark, and I couldn't find any other table which could be cross-referenced by the value of the IDs in those fields and not go beyond the limits of the table (when the lookup value results in a non-existant record ID and points to data that doesn't exist). They should be pretty much right. Field 008A is one I have an idea about but still trying to satisfy the values properly. Ihe value in that field is only used by Rares/Bosses, and most likely either controls status ailment immunities or some other kind of mask.

I finally located the Character Formation Attributes data earlier this afternoon, it was in a place I would have never imagined it to be. This is the kicker though, do you know what it is that sets a characters Formation attributes? One would expect it to be set in their record but instead it's their damn Emblem!!!! that sets their formation attributes. Basically the Emblem ID fixed to the character determines what Formation attributes they have, and nothing more! I'll throw a spreadsheet up once I finish labelling the table properly! It's the one place I never would have imagined Formation Attributes to be set and read from!

This signature was complements of the chef! 10:09, October 2, 2009 (UTC)

Check the Character Emblem Data table on my user page! It's all there ;) !!!

This signature was complements of the chef! 10:27, October 2, 2009 (UTC)

I guess Japanese are the most mysterous people! :) Or maybe it was not the emblem table at all, maybe it was the original char table.
You've finally decoded the gold drop, so it's one less thing to remember to do! And those fields were the initial monster stats. That really makes sense because their stats are connected to the locations in which they spawn! And the only fields were related to those locations are those mentioned fields.
So. There are no more fields in this datasheet that point to an exact spawn location and that means that the location datasheet somewhere (and maybe not only it) will contain the offset numbers to this table (from 0 to 927h).
I had to skip my morning activity and went to work instead. It was a good move because you've updated the table to be more complete. --Ngng 11:44, October 2, 2009 (UTC)

I actually worked out most of the monster table yesterday, but I did some cleaning up of the naming today and labelling a few more I figured out! It was pretty straight forward once I figured out where the stats were because the monster and character tables share a similar data layout so that made it a lot easier than I expected. I had the day off work so I spent most of it labelling and mapping more tables, I've got the static/dynamic character tables pretty close to complete with only a few fields remaining I can't work out at present. There are total of 320 data tables stored in memory through the main pointer offsets, and I've got maybe 80-90 left which I've either got a few fields mapped with lookups (some might be completely wrong but it's a start!) and the rest have values which I have no idea what they do or how to treat them! So I'm just spendign some time tidying up and mapping the known ones out more! Sometimes all of a sudden unknowns with it's like magic working, and presto they are clear to me! More times than not though it's not like that at all, most of the time it's just persistent trial and error. I don't see hex values any more all I see is are patterns! I'm also surprised I missed the gold in the monster table but I guess I wasn't really looking for it either. I just had mapped the ones that stood out the most when I looked at the table, and things like gold values are usually less obvious because unless you convert them to decimal it's easy to completely miss them! I've got a few tables with pure numerical lookup values that I'm stuck on at the moment. I have a decent idea what they are used for though, one is Army Morale values (0 - 1000), another looks like Weapon Modifier Level values (-10 to 10), and some others that reflect some kind of percentage values above and below 100.

I'll keep an eye out for monster spawn tables, but so far after 2 or 3 months neither myself nor Drake have mapped any out. Some tables use StoryID values (such as Guild Tasks/Hired Guild Lads and a few others) which besides knowing the point in the story they are used to reference (I mapped them out by Hiring Points and Guild Task Unlocking Points mostly), I have no idea how they are looked up and where to look them up or even if they cross reference the actual memory data tables. More than likely they are id's which cross reference external files which are loaded in memory when you run the game!

This signature was complements of the chef! 12:31, October 2, 2009 (UTC)

You've reminded me of two movies: The Matrix and A beautiful mind. Both have some strong relations with patterns and hex/decimal values. :)
It's a hard work but the main thing is that you're enjoying it. Good luck in this endevour, and if there will be something that I can help you with, just drop a message! --Ngng 13:25, October 2, 2009 (UTC)

By the way Fields 0x7E - 0x88 of the monster table aren't effects at all ;) They are references to Table 8D which I previously was blank about, turns out it is a Monster Specific Art List Table that looks up the arts in Main Battle Actions table! Though due to the having to bounce through 3 or 4 different tables to get to 8D and not using the first field of the record for the string lookup the fields only contain the ID of 8D they reference. 8D has all the cross referenced Art Strings in it though! So i'll see what I can do about it. Most likely I'll have to do the string lookups in Excel with the IDs in the monster table and table 8D as its own table for vlookup functions to the monster table! That's something I'll do over the weekend anyhow! So you'll be able to add some Monster Arts to their respective pages! It'll be a decent size job I imagine heh!

This signature was complements of the chef! 13:50, October 2, 2009 (UTC)

This signature was complements of the chef! 13:50, October 2, 2009 (UTC)

That's very cool! I'm a bit stuck here... I CANNOT add correct % to monster drops as I would have to add something like "5% in Numor Mines, 10% in Blacksdale" but I just can't do it now :(. I can go with the rough percentage but it will always be lower (divided by more sets) than it is in reality. And when (if) you'll be able to decode locations table all the work has been done to the pages will be null and void. :(
Ah, I guess it's not that bad after all. It will be easier to change it afterwards.
Also I have some of the "monsters" like Jager that has no reference here. Moreover that guy Jager as a boss with known HP drops the different amount of gold at least two times. And some entries just will be skipped anyway. Like for instance "Third Committee Soldier" which will never has it's monster page.
Anyway I'm resolved to finish it. The futher improvements will be easier to include. --Ngng 15:36, October 2, 2009 (UTC)

Mikeyakame, I add a few words, kind of a "lyrical digression", Ok? Thanks ;). As I mentioned before I understand nothing in scripting, coding, programming and similar activities. Maybe it seems stupid, I should ask for guidence but for a guidence just for me only, nobody here'll have enough time, I think. I'm sitting now about 2 hours trying to puzzle out what all this stuff in the Excel sheets means (man, it's a huge amount of work, you did!): some stuff has been figured out but the rest is a labyrinth (I improve with each 10-30 min. It's not a joke. Even). Well, it's 109 % approved that one can escape from every labirinth if one has enough courage :D. It's not that easy for a visual minded person to get technical terms - it's much easier to see and to feel things. Now, my first stupid question :).

  • Is your research finished already? --NinjaArs 21:19, October 2, 2009 (UTC)

Finished! I wisH! There's always more to figure out :D I've got to figure out how to make excel do the monster arts lookup properly now! heh!! This signature was complements of the chef! 01:35, October 3, 2009 (UTC)

Monster Battle Actions Edit

Here you go, this is done with excel doing vlookup's on the IDs stored in the monster table against the Monster Arts table. I copied the data minus the lookup functions because they would have involved it being slower, and since they are static they never change anyhow! Only 0x82 -> 0x88 contain Unique Battle Arts, each Monster Has 4 slots it seems. Which doesn't really tell me what the 3 2 byte values before it do, or the 1 2 byte value after! I guess I'll have to figure them out aftel all! Also by the looks of the lookup table now that I know what each ID looks up there should be generic monster arts table which has a lists for sets of arts for different monsters. That is most likely what 0x7E and 0x80 reference, possibly 0x7A as well, 0x7C might be some battle rank difference values to select higher arts lists using 0x7E and 0x80 values as two upgraded lists. That's my theory at present anyway! The order of the table is exactly the same as Monsters one I sent you to keep things consistent. That way it's easy to figure out which is which, once you sort them it makes them impossible to figure out :D The record layout for the monsters table is chronological order basically, so each section is laid out as they are available/occur in the game. The first record in the set will be the beginning of the game, the last in the set the end of the game. Patterns are very each to match up anyway when you've played the game a couple of times.

This signature was complements of the chef! 02:59, October 3, 2009 (UTC)

Edit: Actually never mind I was taking the list a little too literal which it's not. I hid the first field in the table because I didn't know what it did, but rather I should have known what it did all along! The 4 Action IDs in the Monster table point to the ID in the monster arts table at the beginning of a list, of which 0x0 contains a 2 byte value, then the proceeding fields 0x0 of the arts are empty until you hit the next one with a value, that's where the next list begins!

I'll make some adjustments and account for this in a table, but it's going to be huge!

This signature was complements of the chef! 03:35, October 3, 2009 (UTC)

WEAPONS WONT UPGRADE ANY FURTHER. I could make that into a beauty but forgot how to Edit

I have Legendary Customization and It's still giving me that message. Do you know why this is?

any help would be appreciated


I need more info than just it won't work! What equipment won't let you upgrade further?

This signature was complements of the chef! 03:08, October 2, 2009 (UTC)

Well for one thing I'm trying to upgrade Frostblade to the next level but it won't even upgrade once

another I'm trying to upgrade is a NightBloom Artis, but it wont upgrade to Nightbloom Virtutis

gives me the message I told you about at the beginning of my original post could make that into a beauty but forgot how to

and again I have Legendary Customization

Sorry apparently I'm going blind :D If you check the Nightbloom Artis page, in the upgrade box it should list the customization rank required. From the top of my memory Nightbloom Artis -> Virtutis requires Professional Customization Rank, and if you are unable to customize it then you probably haven't got that specific rank as yet. While you can achieve the highest customization ranks prior to the lower ones, they don't give you the customizations of the previous ranks so you are still limited for certain items that require customization ranks you don't have, in that you hit a wall between customizations until you have the necessary rank in your inventory!

This signature was complements of the chef! 03:43, October 2, 2009 (UTC)

How do I raise my rank?

I've all ready done the stuff to raise customization levels

IE: I got Legendary Customization by completing Union Of The Gold Chalice Task #74

I figured once I got that everything would be unlocked and I could create till my hearts content, but it doesnt look to be the case.

I thought Legendary Customization was the highest rank

It is, but it doesn't unlock customizations which require lower ranks, the equipment customizations which requires Legendary Rank will be available, but only when any lower customizations don't require ranks you don't have yet.

You are rewarded Professional Customization from Union of the Golden Chalice Task 73, which requires the special item Eye of Oath to unlock. Eye of Oath is a reward for completing task 23 (Monsterslayer:Heaven's Lord), but this requires Rank 5 to unlock so to do that you would have to have access to Sacred Lands via Seventh Path to fight him to complete the task. If you have this already, visit the Sacred Lands kill him and return to the World Map via the teleporter and if you have Rank 4 (reward from Kill 2x Bryndilhr), you will get Rank 5 and also the Eye Of Oath. All Task 73 requires is 3x Damascus Ore, but the unlocking requirements are something else entirely!

This signature was complements of the chef! 04:02, October 2, 2009 (UTC)

Preliminary result Edit

First try is here [1]. I dont like those percents :( Dont know what to do with it, though. Please suggest anything!
I've sorted them by percent of appearance (and those required magazines go last). We'll need to increase the number of items in the monster templates to at least 18 (see Terrapest). --Ngng 16:44, October 2, 2009 (UTC)

Regarding the percents... There's a line in your text file for a captured monster. Would that be correct percentage? Example. The first monster is Jhana Fighter. He has 100% chance to be captured according to data in the txt-file. It doesn't seem to be accurate. Jhana Fighter can be captured quite often, but not always. Furthermore, he drops a Claymore, but in the txt-file there's no Claymore. What I'm trying to say is that it can happen that there will be difference in your data and data previously stored in the infoboxes of monsters. How to deal with it in such a case?
  • Do you meen by increasing the number of items to 18 that every monster can drop up to 18 items???--NinjaArs 22:20, October 2, 2009 (UTC)

I'm not sure what you mean! Where did you find those percentages! In the Monsters table the only percentages there are are for Weekly/Daily Drops and min drop amounts! InvMax field is the maximum amount of an item you can have in your inventory or something like that! StaticDrop field is 100% drop, that is an item the monster will ALWAYS drop. So if it is a captured monster there, then it's 100% guaranteed drop. DynamicDrops (4 of them) use another table for percentages, I think Drake178 put one up on his page with values for those! I'm not sure on their percentages, but they are pretty much all the same! Jhana Fighter that drops a Claymore in one you fight in one of the quests! You need to keep a non-sorted table to reference for the monsters too, because you'll find it contains every monster quest and normal! On the Monsters spreadsheet Rows 799 -> 1913 are all monsters spawned in quests so they are special cases! Normal monsters are Rows 2 -> 798. Secondary Monster Records are rows 1914 -> end. So basaically you can seperate the monsters table into 3 tables. Regular battle monsters/Quest battle monsters/Everything Else (I haven't worked out what the secondary records do exactly yet, when I do i'll let you know!)

This signature was complements of the chef! 01:51, October 3, 2009 (UTC)

Monster_Drops - has the drop percentages for the Monsters table!

DynDrop1 Field is Common Drop (45% chance), DynDrop2 Field is Uncommon Drop (30% chance), DynDrop3 Field is Rare Drop (15% chance), DynDrop 4 Field is Very Rare Drop (3% chance) !! I should have probably labelled them better, but I didn't get a chance to check his labelling since I had to label them all myself as well. So basically those are the base percentages for each of the drop fields that aren't Static Drops (100% drop first drop field) and Weekly (30% chance + mag) and Daily (15% chance + mag).

This signature was complements of the chef! 02:03, October 3, 2009 (UTC)

Oh, yes, thanks! That was my lack of knowledge on the subject about dynamic drops! I've actually automatically separated quest monsters from the regular ones so Jhana Fighter (that could drop a Claymore only in a quest like Jhana Royals) will not interfere with the result. I don't think it'll be alright to add these quests drops to ordinary monsters pages. For example the Jhana Fighter page would have also Pangu's Bone or Ancient Tataraichi in this case.
As for the percentage it was not so unexpected to try to divide the number of the component appear by the number of drop sets for this monster. And now when I have this table I understand that I was incorrect.
As I said before it would be ideal to have something like "5% in Numor Mines, 10% in Blacksdale" (but it's impossible now as we're lacking another table). I'll do as you'll suggest me about these percentages. I'll update the file monster drops table considering. Would you look at it one more time to finally decide about percents? Do we need them or will be drop them.
The new result is here: [2]. Still hunger for your suggestions. Thanks! --Ngng 06:07, October 3, 2009 (UTC)

Looks fine, other than the floating point percentages :D No need to average them out it just makes it more confusing to read. Also with greater than, not really necessary, just put the minimum chance percentage in because any higher is variable on battle chains, and it's best to assume that any bonus' aren't applied to base chances. If there are multiple location drops of the same item with different percentages, just add an extra drop line specifying the location and chance for it!

If you need more drop entries let me know i'll add some!

This signature was complements of the chef! 06:26, October 3, 2009 (UTC)

Thanks! About floating points: some entries have "0.3%" or "0.4%" so without that fractions they'll be just zeros! I think I better drop the fractions in case >=1% and it won't look that bad.
'>' signs: If I get rid of them some users would complain about too low percentage (like life drilled me :)). Could we at least mention it in some place near so to cut out 60% of those complains.
About multiple locations you're kidding me, right? :) I'd wholeheartedly like to separate drops for locations but I just can't! There're no reference on locations in this table. :( Someday in the future when you'll find those locations tables I'll reparse this file, but sadly it's out of the question now. --Ngng

I wasn't kidding at all about the locations! I'll post up a spreadsheet later on tonight with the locations mapped out for you :) You'll see how easy it is when you see the spreadsheet! The key is working with the rare monsters, because they are unique to certain areas and they are at the end of a list for a given location.

This signature was complements of the chef! 06:58, October 3, 2009 (UTC)

Are you trying to say that this table is sorted by locations? So that monsters go in bulks from one loction to another? That's a riot! :) I'll try to look in it and if that's the truth that would be just great! :) --Ngng 07:08, October 3, 2009 (UTC)
You are right! They are sorted by sublocations (not even locations but subareas). That's very cool and a big relief. That will fix the table to it's final state. I'm working on it now please to not bother and spend your time also (it still takes time to add locations in that datasheet)! Hurrah! :) --Ngng 07:41, October 3, 2009 (UTC)

Correction: sorted by sublocation and quest relation. Actually maybe sorted by the sequence the quests and locations were added to the game world. --Ngng 07:57, October 3, 2009 (UTC)

Glad you see what I meant ;) First time I looked at them I was expecting some complex layout and because of that I spent hours searching for location id's just like you tried to do. Then I realized the mapping it as per the game, which means that each list is just read into an area and spawns are calculated in the engine itself. So once you know how the sublocations are opened up during the game, you basically know the order of the monster / harvest point / treasure chest locations. If you aren't sure on one area just look for the rarest or most unique value in a list and work with that. If you can find start and finish points of each sublocation list, the rest of a piece of cake!

Edit: That is what I meant. Try and think of the mapping the same as when new areas are unlocked through quests/story line, and that's basically how the table is laid out. Sometimes quest points/story line points unlock new monster subsets for an area, so take Crookfen for example you have two sets of monsters, one with lowish Battle Rank that are unlocked when you have access to Heroic Ramparts, and then a much higher BR set which are unlocked at the beginning of doing Sheryl's first quest! Bai-Ze will be in the second set for Crookfen, along with Charybdis and some other rares too.

The first 2 Jhana monsters location are Yamarn Plains! The following are Ruins of Robelia Central Tier/Sweeping Safehold, then Gaslin Caves Hypnotic Hollow, then Dilmoor, then Blackdale The Speckled Chasm, The Cuspate Post, The Sappire Pit, then Ruins Robelia Passage way Tier, then Ivory Peaks, then First Path, etc.

This signature was complements of the chef! 08:01, October 3, 2009 (UTC)

I've set one entry in motion to see how does it look. I mean Rockgrater. The result is quasi sorted and that can be improved somehow. It looks a bit messy I know but it contains the complete info on drops in every situation possible. Please suggest! :) --Ngng 11:07, October 3, 2009 (UTC)

I'll take a look cause I want to add a couple of things too to make life easier.

Updated monsters spreadsheet, check my locations against yours for verification because either of us might have gotten a few wrong. Two sets of values are better than one when both are based on assumptions and guess work!

The monster arts, basically how they work is the Action1-4ID in Sheet 1, which also have respective 1-4 ListStartName columns if you want to see the arts list, go to the UpdatedMonsterArts sheet and search the Action Number ID, and make sure the first String in the list matches the one in the Sheet 1 table, if so then the value in the ArtListReadAmt column tells you how many arts are read from the list which basically means from the first string, count the value in that column from the first art, and it should result with an art with - in ArtReadAmt followed by another Art with a value in ArtReadAmt. Pretty easy.

The UseAtMinBR/UseAtMaxBR columns are the BR working ranges for each art, some arts have 999 as BRMin and these arts are never used from the list, but otherwise based on the current Army BR of your army, the level of the art used will be dependant on the Min/Max range for that level. If min is 0, max is 999 then it's the only level used. Some might have min 0 / max 84 Level I, min 84 max 99 Level II, min 99 max 999 Level III, and those levels will be used based on the BR of your army, if you have > 99 then Level III of the art will be used, else if you have 85 Level II will be used and so on.

The LocalArtRedirectStartArt column is a redirect to the same table for an extra list of arts that monster has access to, take MonsterArtListID 01E9 for example.

488	01E9	6	Knee Splitter	0	15	-	-	-
489	01EA	-	Knee Splitter II	15	24	-	-	-
490	01EB	-	Knee Splitter III	24	33	-	-	-
491	01EC	-	Knee Splitter IV	33	42	-	-	-
492	01ED	-	Knee Splitter V	42	999	-	-	-
493	01EE	-	<redirect>	-	-	355	0163	Restorative Herb

It has 6 art entries in the list, Knee Splitter I-V + a local redirect to Art List 0163 with starting art Restorative Herb.

355	0164	15	Restorative Herb	0	8	-	-	-
356	0165	-	Restorative Herb II	8	15	-	-	-
357	0166	-	Restorative Herb III	15	22	-	-	-
358	0167	-	Restorative Herb IV	22	29	-	-	-
359	0168	-	Restorative Herb V	29	999	-	-	-
360	0169	-	Life Powder	11	18	-	-	-
361	016A	-	Life Powder II	18	25	-	-	-
362	016B	-	Life Powder III	25	32	-	-	-
363	016C	-	Life Powder IV	32	39	-	-	-
364	016D	-	Life Powder V	39	999	-	-	-
365	016E	-	Restorative Tincture	26	33	-	-	-
366	016F	-	Restorative Tincture II	33	40	-	-	-
367	0170	-	Restorative Tincture III	40	47	-	-	-
368	0171	-	Restorative Tincture IV	47	55	-	-	-
369	0172	-	Restorative Tincture V	55	999	-	-	-

My numbers are slightly out of whack for some reason, but 0164 = 0163 heh. That redirect is to that list with 15 arts, and the monster can use Rest Herb/Life Powder/Rest Tincture on top of the Knee Splitter art list!

Thats all there is to it really!

This signature was complements of the chef! 11:24, October 3, 2009 (UTC)

I think that switch in rare infobox is an overkill. Those boxes will be computer-generated there's no need for any user friendly parts especially parts that no user will be able to fill.
Please also look at Rockgrater page to suggest something and thanks for the table. I've already corrected some of my entries and there're some not so correct on your side (in relation to The Final Fortress). As for monster arts I'm ready to do some parse here if you don't want to do it yourself (I somehow think you'd like to go the whole way here!). --Ngng 12:19, October 3, 2009 (UTC)

If you thought that was overkill see it now ;) But it's very neat and easy to enter!

looks like this

|magazine = Dragon
|drop 1 = Dragon Scale
|drop 1 type = common
|drop 2 = War Dragon Rawhide
|drop 2 type = uncommon
|drop 3 = Inverted Dragon Scale
|drop 3 type = weekly
|drop 4 = Bristly Dragon Mane
|drop 4 type = daily
|drop 4 note = [[Crooken]] only
The only not so neat thing about it that we will generate all the info and it there's no "neat" or "difficult" when it comes to generated info. Also I cannot enter the excapt percents to this constructions. For example the mentioned Rockgrater has 16-32% to drop Curebulb in Ruins
| drop 7       = Curebulb
| drop 7 note  = 16-32%, only in [[The Ancient Ruins]]

It's not 15-30% because there are two entries on it in the table. I can compromise with you here, no problem, but will still remain disagree. I've spent an hour to debug those exact %'s. --Ngng 13:27, October 3, 2009 (UTC)

From where though? The monster table or do you mean taking averages? I can easily add a variable percentage that's a sinch. I've changes note do the following on drop 6 so far
| drop 6 note = Ancient Ruins
Location: Ancient Ruins 
* Some Drop (chance x%)

That seem ok?

Hm... It seems that I've forgotten that all the rares has only one entry in the table, so whose 30% and 45% are true. But even so this approach must change significantly the rules by which I do the parsing, still it's not that hard BUT there will be difference than between rares and commons.
So if you're really gonna make the new interface you'll have to do it for commons too. I don't seem to undertand a bit your new approach, can you show me, how it will look for this one:
| caption      = A captured Tempest can be sold at a high price and the taste is indescribable.
| pc value     = 43,990g
| drop 1       = Tempest{{!}}Captured Tempest
| drop 1 note  = '''guaranteed'''
| drop 2       = Archfiend Fang
| drop 2 note  = 45-70%
| drop 3       = Tanned Archfiend Hide
| drop 3 note  = 30-50%
| drop 4       = Blueprint 4
| drop 4 note  = 15-30%
| drop 5       = Archfiend Horn
| drop 5 note  = 3-15%
| drop 6       = Large Spiritlord Beak
| drop 6 note  = 30%, '''requires [[Spiritlord Weekly]]'''
| drop 7       = Sharp Spiritlord Tail
| drop 7 note  = 15%, '''requires [[The Daily Spiritlord]]'''

--Ngng 13:47, October 3, 2009 (UTC)

Guys, you are amazing! Just wanted to show my recpect for both of you. In several days you did so much! I would be proud to help you with it as long as it takes, but unfortunately my knowledge was/is not sufficient enough (some things were clear to me, but the most - not). I feel so ashamed. Good luck with your work! If you'll need any other help, you know were to find me.--NinjaArs 16:22, October 4, 2009 (UTC)

next iteration Edit

Just look at this mess!.. It is Terrapest btw. I was gonna clean it some more. It can be cleaned more. If you're gonna rework the infobox just go for it then and tell me the new rules. I need to set it in stone already!

| caption      = A captured Terrapest can be sold at a high price and is best used for stew.
| pc value     = 1,383g
| drop 1       = Land Insecta Talon
| drop 1 note  = 30-50% in [[The Great Sand Sea]], 45-70% in [[Aveclyff]], 45-70% in [[Numor Mine]], 45-70% in [[Flaumello Tower]], 45-70% in [[Yvalock's Nest]]
| drop 2       = Grand Beetle Barb
| drop 2 note  = 3-15% in [[The Great Sand Sea]], 15-30% in [[Aveclyff]], 22-40% in [[Numor Mine]], 22-40% in [[Flaumello Tower]], 22-40% in [[Yvalock's Nest]], 30-50% in [[The Seventh Path]], 30-50% in [[The Sixth Path]]
| drop 3       = Curebulb
| drop 3 note  = 16-32% in [[Flaumello Tower]], 16-32% in [[Yvalock's Nest]], 24-42% in [[The Seventh Path]], 24-42% in [[The Sixth Path]], 15-30% in [[The Ancient Ruins]]
| drop 4       = Large Grand Beetle Talon
| drop 4 note  = 15-30% in [[Aveclyff]], 15-30% in [[Numor Mine]], 9-22% in [[Flaumello Tower]], 9-22% in [[Yvalock's Nest]], 45-70% in [[The Seventh Path]], 45-70% in [[The Sixth Path]]
| drop 5       = Land Insecta Carapace
| drop 5 note  = 45-70%, only in [[The Great Subterrane]]
| drop 6       = Beast Carapace
| drop 6 note  = 45-70%, only in [[The Great Sand Sea]]
| drop 7       = Large Talon
| drop 7 note  = 22-40% in [[The Seventh Path]], [[The Sixth Path]]
| drop 8       = World Tree Timber
| drop 8 note  = 45-70%, only in [[The Ancient Ruins]]
| drop 9       = Terrapest{{!}}Captured Terrapest
| drop 9 note  = 15-30% in [[The Great Subterrane]], 15-30% in [[The Great Sand Sea]], 3-15% in [[Aveclyff]], 3-15% in [[Numor Mine]]
| drop 10       = Grand Beetle Talon
| drop 10 note  = 30-50%, only in [[The Great Subterrane]]
| drop 11       = Shed Husk
| drop 11 note  = 30-50%, only in [[Aveclyff]]
| drop 12       = Djin's Coin
| drop 12 note  = 30-50%, only in [[The Ancient Ruins]]
| drop 13       = Faerie Herb
| drop 13 note  = 3-15% in [[Aveclyff]], 16-32% in [[Numor Mine]]
| drop 14       = Inverted Terrapest Barb
| drop 14 note  = 9-22% in [[The Seventh Path]], [[The Sixth Path]]
| drop 15       = Fresh Oil
| drop 15 note  = 3-15%, only in [[The Great Subterrane]]
| drop 16       = Jewel Steel
| drop 16 note  = 3-15%, only in [[The Ancient Ruins]]
| drop 17       = Retral Grand Beetle Husk
| drop 17 note  = 30%, '''requires [[Grand Beetle Weekly]]'''
| drop 18       = Large Grand Beetle Barb
| drop 18 note  = 15%, '''requires [[The Daily Grand Beetle]]'''

--Ngng 13:59, October 3, 2009 (UTC)

Yep that's what I'm doing now. I'm trying to make it so I don't break the old note, while adding what else I need to!

I'll let you know as soon as i'm done. It's the legacy functionality that's killing me :D

Please think of me too! If you're gonna make something really hard to implement from the mashine POV it will be unfair. The legacy is working OK now and can contain all the new changes and still look beautiful. But if you determined there's noone to stop you! I'll upload new table here, there are some diffucult cases there (Jhana Fighter or Giant Shellfly) that you maybe want to consult while consider the new look. --Ngng 14:17, October 3, 2009 (UTC)

Well I won't add custom chance ranges for drops yet till I speak with Drake178 about that because if I don't he'll skitz it and undo everything because he has the right to. He's on holidays so I won't do anything drastic at the moment. What I've done is simple, it works like this:

| magazine = Grand Beetle
| drop 1 = Terrapest{{!}}Captured Terrapest
| drop 1 type = uncommon
| drop 1 area = [[The Ancient Ruins]]
| drop 2 = Land Insecta Talon
| drop 2 type = common
| drop 2 area = [[Aveclyff]]/[[Numor Mine]]/[[Flaumello Tower]]/[[Yvalock's Nest]]
| drop 3 = Land Insecta Carapace
| drop 3 type = common
| drop 3 area = [[The Great Subterrane]]
| drop 4 = Beast Carapace
| drop 4 type = common
| drop 4 area = [[The Great Sand Sea]]
| drop 5 = World Tree Timber
| drop 5 type = common
| drop 5 area = [[The Ancient Ruins]]
| drop 6 = Djin's Coin
| drop 6 type = uncommon
| drop 6 area = [[The Ancient Ruins]]
| drop 7 = Land Insecta Talon
| drop 7 type = uncommon
| drop 7 area = [[Great Sand Sea]]
| drop 8 = Curebulb
| drop 8 type = uncommon
| drop 8 area = [[Aveclyff]]/[[Numor Mine]]/[[Flaumello Tower]]/[[Yvalock's Nest]]/[[The Seventh Path]]/[[The Sixth Path]]
| drop 9 = Inverted Terrapest Barb
| drop 9 type = vrare
| drop 9 area = [[The Sixth Path]]
| drop 10 = Jewel Steel
| drop 10 type = vrare
| drop 10 area = [[The Ancient Ruins]]
| drop 11 = Retral Grand Beetle Husk
| drop 11 type = vrare
| drop 11 area = [[The Ancient Ruins]]
| drop 12 = Retral Grand Beetle Husk
| drop 12 type = weekly
| drop 13 = Large Grand Beetle Barb
| drop 13 type = daily

The values for type are: common (45%), uncommon (30%), rare (15%), vrare (3%), weekly (30%) + uses magazine = name to print the mag req, daily (15%) + uses magazine = name to print the mag req.

I haven't removed drop x note for both legacy purposes and in case there is a special note to be added to the drop other than what will be done through drop type and drop area! It's there so we have an alternative option, but only if absolutely necessary. DON'T use it for percentage ranges please because Drake178 will have a heart attack, him and I have spoken about crazy things like that in the past and basically they are a no go period because they are just confusing as hell for everybody, also because nobody knows how you came up with them!

Also you can't just use percentage ranges all over the place, each percentage is a fixed base value, the only values drops use are 100% (static), 45% (common), 30% (uncommon), 15% (rare), 3% (very rare), 30% (weekly), 15% (daily). There are no 40-70% values anywhere to be found. Splits on the other hand don't use any set values, they are set in the captured monster record for each item they split. Monsters have nothing like that at all for drops. The columns I added to the Monster spreadsheet were just to make it easier for formatting, they don't appear in the record at all. The only chance values in the monster record are for Weekly / Daily drops and nothing more! The only way the drop chance changes is via Battle Chains, and that value is adjusted after the battle it has nothing to do with base drop chances, base are base because they are set values which only change when a modifier is applied to them through the code itself!

I don't know how you came up with those percentage ranges!!! I'm still confused myself!! heh let me know how you came up with them because I'm baffled with those numbers you got!

Also I'm trying to make it as simple as possible from the spreadsheet that's what I did it that way. You are going to have to manually sort their order from highest to lowest percentage, with weekly then daily at the bottom no matter what I do! The problem is when you have chances and they aren't in order it becomes a huge mess and nobody can read it, that's why if we are going to use chance percentages they have to be done in a clean fashion and that means manually ordering the drop list so common drops are at the top, then uncommon, then rare, then very rare, then weekly, and finally daily. It might be worth putting the Captured Monster drops first in the list but that's just a thought so the thing is readable! We need to consider both adding as much data as we can while at the same time making sure a person can actually read the hell it says! That's the toughest problem here, we need to make it work so it both has information and can be easily read by a regular person! Wiki articles are a mess as is, if we add more mess we just add more work for us in the end.

This signature was complements of the chef! 14:51, October 3, 2009 (UTC)

By the way I haven't done normal monster infobox yet, so just hold off till that's done. For now just do the rares, while I ponder on the normal monsters and see if i can come up with an easier way than 3843y4823874328 drop entries for them! Rares are pretty straight forward and won't require anything fancy.

I added this too:

| drop x type = always

For 100% drop chance

| captured drop = 1

To set a drop number for the captured monster so you don't need to do

| drop 1 = Monster {{!}} Captured Monster
| drop 1 type = always

Instead you just do:

| captured drop = 1
| drop 1 = Captured Monster
| drop 1 type = always

All it will do is if it matches the drop number you set it won't treat the name as a page link rather just plain text which is the proper way to do it! Using a redirect to the same page with an alternate description for the link is an ugly way to do it because people don't know how to use {{!}} or even what it does! There are always better ways to do things, some of which aren't that data table export friendly but I'll try and come up with both reasonably easy to export and proper ways to handle some things. Half the template pages scare me!!! They have 38348478383 braces on 1 line and I don't even want to try and split the 10+ deep branching IF statements up, it's just a programmers nightmare if you ask me :D Any problems with my changes let me know, also if you come up with any nicer/cleaner ways to handle 5+ locations for Monster Drops, because honestly after looking at your Terrapest one there is no way it will be readable period. It's just the current infobox for Drops was never designed to handle 10+ drops in more than 2 locations. I was thinking about using Drop Sets, where we can have 2 or 3 sets of drops for a monster with many locations.

The idea I had was multiple Drop Set could cover a Monsters that has pretty common drops for 2 or 3 areas but has more than 1 common set of drops. So if we have 9 areas which a monster spawns, and for 3 groups of 3 areas those groups share common or similar drops/chances so instead of making an ugly mess of it all, we treat each group of 3 locations at a Drop Set which will allow us to lay them out much more cleanly, and make them alot easier to read. It will require some hand entering of data, but there is nothing else we can possibly do to make it easier there. I'll think about it overnight and see if I can come up with a way of using the infobox to do it without requiring more than 2 times the amount of infobox variables to handle it all!

If you have any suggestions feel free to let me know what you come up with, I've only got an idea not an answer so more ideas help ;)

This signature was complements of the chef! 16:03, October 3, 2009 (UTC) This signature was complements of the chef! 16:03, October 3, 2009 (UTC)

This signature was complements of the chef! 15:02, October 3, 2009 (UTC)

OK! I can see your point and it's working great for the rares but it's not that great for the common folk. Here's the example (and there are many of them!): Vile Lizard with Vile Lizard Talon.

It has 9 good entries in the table. 8 of them has Vile Lizard Talon as a dyn drop. There're 6 entires for Ruins of Robelia Castle all of them contain Vile Lizard Talon:

  • Vile Lizard Talon as dyn drop 2 (line 4)
  • Vile Lizard Talon as dyn drop 2 (line 5)
  • Vile Lizard Talon as dyn drop 2 (line 6)
  • Vile Lizard Talon as dyn drop 1 (line 57) -- here goes another subarea
  • Vile Lizard Talon as dyn drop 1 (line 58)
  • Vile Lizard Talon as dyn drop 1 (line 59)

So what is the floor chance to get Vile Lizard Talon in Ruins of Robelia Castle? It can be 45% or 30%. Or it can be (45+45+45+30+30+30)/6=37.5%=~38%. Same goes for many-many common monsters. Maybe it's not that important after all. But I have even more hard example. It's Manticore with Captured Manticore. In the same subarea of Gaslin Caves this creature can be captures as dyn. drop 3 (2 times) and as dyn. drop 4 (1 time) making it very wrong calling it just 15% or 3%.
I dont know but just entering a priori wrong numbers does not seem like a good idea to me. We can enter them, alright. And noone will notice it because they are just chances. --Ngng 15:56, October 3, 2009 (UTC)

Forking... Edit

I guess it has to be done ENTIRELY by ONE person. Because I myself have some reasons to do it my way you on the other hand have yours. I suppose that nothing good can come out of this if we're gonna try to consider both opinions forging the result. So I'm gonna patiently wait until you'll finish it, BUT please make an example entry for mentioned above Terrapest as the common monster with the most drops. After it will be finished I'll reparse everything into the new format and it will take 3-4 hours to make it happen!

Additionally I think you don't have to keep the legacy mode. You can spawn another infobox like say Template:infobox raremonster, fill it up, place it in Terrapest page and when the time will come we will just switch everything into new infobox leaving the old forgotten. That will keep the new from being too dirty with curly brackets. I should show you MY infobox in my Wiki... That one for sure is a bracket beast. :( Wiki language is poor. It must evolve into something more usable.

Well, I'm gonna have a bath now. Ah... What a luxury it is in a cold day :) --Ngng 16:28, October 3, 2009 (UTC)

Oh, and one more thing: I still would like to consider those not 15% or 30% drops somehow. It would be wrong not to do so. Please read the statement about Vile Lizard above this "Forking" message.

I wouldn't say anything about "drop sets" as for the ordinary user who will look on the page they just won't seem so clear in my opinion. But you're the master here, I'll be just waiting for the result ready to unleash the new format on those monsters! --Ngng 16:34, October 3, 2009 (UTC)

Ngng, I'd like to apologize to you. You asked for suggestions and I did nothing. But it's not the end of the world, yes? Anyway, you handled it :).--NinjaArs 16:32, October 4, 2009 (UTC)

Naaah! On this stage of the game nothing is really suggestable. You can try though but I fear if we will suggest one another it may end up in a quarrel. Lets wait until Mikeyakame will finish up the new template and then we will fill up monster pages! (And soon I'm gonna look into those monster arts he offered to parse, maybe it'll prove much more easy from the template side of things so we'll get some fun! :)) --Ngng 18:49, October 4, 2009 (UTC)

I need some help! You said that you had came across the true Conqueror rank 12, right? I've read your data table and still cannot find out anything. I have some questions, can you answer them so we can see everything more clearly??? I finished all quests, all guildtasks, have Ophelia's sword, got trade rank S in everyarea and the Conqueror still RANK 8!!!!! Try to remember something pls!!!!!! _Did you get the ANCIENT SCABBARD? _Did you open ALL OF THE TREASURE CHESTS? _Did you do the quest EMOTIONS before Six Bases? _Did you do the quest THE SILVERFALCONS:PART THREE before Six Bases? _Did you talk with all people with talking bubble? _Did you hire all the leaders in game and get their parameter bonus? (I think it's useless :D)Marynell 07:29, October 5, 2009 (UTC)

I must have been high or something when I fought him because even though I remember it, the monster records don't have a Rank 12 True Conqueror so the logical explanation is I was imagining things ;) It is non existent so don't worry about it!

This signature was complements of the chef! 07:32, October 5, 2009 (UTC)

Monster arts Edit

I've read your info about arts and I see how it's working. I cannot get though how could you be able to dig it out of game data because it's way not that obvious! It was really an amazing work you've done with these arts!
I can create any template-oriented text from this data if I'm clear to do that but the result again may not fit into the current template (or maybe it may?). For example, lets take this Jhana Fighter. This monster can use Cavalry Call art chain everywhere but Gaslin Caves. It can be mentioned like this "(only in Ruins of Robelia Castle,Mojcado Castle or Dillmoor)" but maybe you think it will be more appropriate to do it through templating? Also a question about BR levels and arts levels. Do we have to bury this info or is it worth mentioning (like that: "Cavalry Call (BR <33)", "Cavalry Call II (BR 33-65)", "Cavalry Call III (BR >65)")? --Ngng 17:13, October 5, 2009 (UTC)

Back Edit

Looks like i'll have a lot of reading to do... I'll get to it in a few hours :P Drake178 21:57, October 5, 2009 (UTC)

Welcome back lad :D Enjoy your 2 or 3 weeks holiday? This signature was complements of the chef! 01:59, October 6, 2009 (UTC)

Edit: By the way I've sent you my master table db via email, check it when you have time you'll have a lot of things to add. exporting directly from my master db should be easier than importing the ones I've sent and then checking again for changes I've made more recently!

This signature was complements of the chef! 04:34, October 6, 2009 (UTC)

I'm not there just yet (probably won't be until tomorrow now either, but i will do! In the meantime i'm adding my 2 cents to the Rockgrater, once i'm finished feel free to modify/enhance/revert/whatever. I'm reluctant to change the infobox itself but i'll revamp the template completely otherwise. I'll preserve the old functionality for the time being. Drake178 04:49, October 6, 2009 (UTC)

The infobox itself should be fine I think and the layout for the monster is much better with your direction. I've added art x minbr for certain monster skill sets just in case you were wondering what it's for. I don't really see the point of adding the BR range for each individual art, like say for example Icy Idol (boss) has:

Impale			0	81
Impale II		81	999
Impale III		999	999
Acid Rain		0	81
Acid Rain II		81	999
Acid Rain III		999	999
Maelstrom Insignia	0	81
Maelstrom Insignia II	81	999
Maelstrom Insignia III	999	999
Palsy Skein III		0	81
Palsy Skein IV		81	86
Palsy Skein V		86	999
Cachexia		0	81
Cachexia II		81	86
Cachexia III		86	999
Gandiva			0	999
Curse			0	999

so basically art list would be:

  • Impale I-II
  • Acid Rain I-II
  • Maelstrom Insignia I-II
  • Palsy Skein III-V
  • Cachexia I-III
  • Gandiva I
  • Curse I

just giving the range of the art that can be used. There are some cases in lists where they redirect to Item/Mystic Skill set lists, like I've done on the Barbarossa page. They require a minimum BR to actually use that skill.

Barbarossa has a redirect to this list on top of their base monster arts:

Flash Bomb		40	60
Flash Bomb II		60	80
Flash Bomb III		80	100
Flash Bomb IV		100	120
Flash Bomb V		120	999
Poison Bomb		60	80
Poison Bomb II		80	100
Poison Bomb III		100	120
Poison Bomb IV		120	140
Poison Bomb V		140	999
Smoke Bomb		60	80
Smoke Bomb II		80	100
Smoke Bomb III		100	120
Smoke Bomb IV		120	140
Smoke Bomb V		140	999
Sound Dampener		999	999
Sound Dampener II	999	999
Sound Dampener III	999	999
Sound Dampener IV	999	999
Sound Dampener V	999	999
Acid Bomb		999	999
Acid Bomb II		999	999
Acid Bomb III		999	999
Acid Bomb IV		999	999
Acid Bomb V		999	999

So what I've done for Barbarossa is:

* Flash Bomb I-V (Art Req: min BR 40)
* Poison Bomb I-V (Art Req: min BR 60)
* Smoke Bomb I-V (Art Req: min BR 60)

Sound Dampener and Acid Bomb aren't obviously used as their minimum Battle Rank is 999, but basically those Item Skills don't have their first rank min BR set to 0, rather they will only be used once you reach a minimum Battle Rank for your party. I thought that info would be useful to know rather than the BR for each and every art, that just gets messy fast.

This signature was complements of the chef! 05:11, October 6, 2009 (UTC)

I'll do it both ways anyway and then we can pick :P Drake178 05:15, October 6, 2009 (UTC)

If you like mate. Just some are going to have lists is all. I didn't think there was a huge difference between rank of an art because if you think about it, the difference between say War God III and War God IV isn't huge, the damage is slightly higher but the art will do a ton of damage whether it's III or IV. Same goes for things like Palsy Skein, Mystic Mine and other mystic arts, it's mostly a damage modifier that changes between the ranks, the base damage itself doesn't vary all that much, where as if you have a lower ranked skill and then a higher ranked skill which can be used once a min BR is met, then obviously that higher ranked skill might have totally different damage than the lower one! I'll do a test on two rares with lots of arts and we'll see which is the best alternative. I'm going through monsters one by one anyhow because it'll take me longer to figure out how to make a damn spreadsheet readable and parsible for the wiki than to just do em by hand! I've got the monster art list with br ranges, and monster data tables in excel already so its just a quick matter of looking at the ID in the monster data and referencing it in the art lists sheet to get the list. There is also a value in the arts list in the second word of the record that tells the code how many art ids to read for that list, and then if the last record of the list is FFFF, the following word is interpreted as another record offset to read from within the current art table, basically an additional list redirect! So it's messy to try and format all that in excel in such a way that we can use it! I'll let you know when I've got the 2 ready to compare and we'll go from there. This signature was complements of the chef! 05:25, October 6, 2009 (UTC)

Edit: I added emblem data to the soldiers/character/leader infoboxes for formation attributes and parameter bonus for leaders. Rush - character, Snievan & Leshau - leader, Sutherland - soldier. I wasn't sure if or how static templates could be called from infoboxes so I just went with if then else lists for all the used emblems for those infoboxes. If there is a way to use templates inside an infobox similar to what I've done that can replace all the if statements I've used then I'll be happy to clean up the infoboxes themselves with that approach. I just went with what I knew, the wiki help is about as useful as donkey on a freeway! This signature was complements of the chef! 05:28, October 6, 2009 (UTC)

Edit2: Just took a quick look at the monster infobox changes, for the base monster art list, not all arts start at I, some start from II or III so perhaps rather than Tier I-V BR for column headings, just Tier & BR Range, so we aren't adding fields just for the sake of adding fields, because not all base lists contain all the ranks of an art, the redirects do but the base lists depend on what the lowest rank of an art that can be used and go from there!

Heres an example from The White Conqueror:

Savage IV		0	999
Deep Impact IV		0	999
Photon Field IV		0	999
Obliterate IV		0	999
Crimson Flare IV	0	999
Tao Tie [Conqueror] IV	0	999
Abyssal Gate IV		0	999
Seal IV			0	999
Delta-Petra IV		0	999
Masterblow IV		0	999
War God IV		0	999
Blackout V		999	999
Whiteout V		999	999
Animalcule III		0	999
Fatal Eclipse III	0	999
Miracle III		0	999
Overdrive III		0	999

Just so you know what I mean. This signature was complements of the chef! 05:47, October 6, 2009 (UTC)

To the template question, this should tell you everything: {{!}} is a template (called Template:!).
To the monster art question: you don't have to fill all the fields out, and i can leave both (all) types accessible depending on what variables you put in. Some nice example is in the making for that with the guild tasks for monsters. Drake178 05:52, October 6, 2009 (UTC)

I think I get it, so if I understand correctly then I create a Category:Category Name page for the sub category, then add a category to it pointing to the parent category correct?

ie. Create this page: Category:Emblem_templates Add the Templates category to that page once it's created, which would make a child category of Templates Category correct? Then create individual Emblem template pages, and add Emblem_templates as the category to each right?

I can't find much documentation on child/parent categories so I'm still a little light on the concept on how they work here!

This signature was complements of the chef! 06:13, October 6, 2009 (UTC)

categories have nothing to do with templates so you kind of lost me there :P What is it exactly that you'd like to do? i'd probably just do one template to handle all the emblems and call it the same way you call any other template passing a single variable: the emblem's identifier. you could, if you wanted to, put stuff like collapsible headers and accessory requests staright into an infobox template you just have to forward the variable from the infobox template to the other template. Drake178 06:24, October 6, 2009 (UTC)
Well take for example how the Userlist Templates are categorized right, you have sub categories for the child template lists, ie. Arts, etc, then they have their own child templates, like Arts has Invocations, etc. Lets just say hypothetically if I want to create a new template category for Emblems lets say inside Userlist Templates, would I add the category for Category:Emblems Templates page as Category:Userlist Templates. Then create templates which have Category:Emblems Templates at the bottom of the template page? So they appear under the Emblems category when listed, and Emblems appears, like
<noinclude>[[Category:Emblems templates]]</noinclude>
That's basically all I mean! Just the same way as it's currently been done with Main Categories and Sub Categories! I'm just trying to grasp the concept so any I add will be organized and tidy if I need to add any! This signature was complements of the chef! 06:32, October 6, 2009 (UTC)
If you want to go into that the proper way of doing it is to make the template, make the template doc, include the template doc in the template, and put the categories into the template doc's includeonly part. But other than being meticulous your approach works just as fine and is probably easier to grasp. For a lot of templates i did this before i left, you can tell by looking at their histories. It has the advantage of having the template sorted alphabetically in its category (rather than being sorted by T for Template or having to include custom sorting in each one), not to mention opening the template displays the doc/example right off the bat without having to look for it. Drake178 06:49, October 6, 2009 (UTC)

The new approach on Rockgrater page looks nice (yet maybe a bit unclear to the ordinary user)! Do you guys still need me to convert that into template format (because I happen to have the program which can do it with minor corrections applied) or you'll be better off without my help (I'm still to finish some image maps then)? --Ngng 06:11, October 6, 2009 (UTC)

I welcome your help, but the design isn't quite finished yet. Then again, the design can be changed later as long as the variables remain the same, so feel free to convert everything to that format if you want, it'll make all the info readily available on the pages in case we decide to change the template. Oh and feel free to change the layout any way you like too, i'm just trying to show the path we should take :D Drake178 06:18, October 6, 2009 (UTC)

I guess it's for the better when it's done by one person with only small corrections from the others. I'll refrain from changing anything as long as it looks good (which is the case). I'll convert everything then and we'll fill the pages together with NinjaArs‎ (so he will also have fun!). And one more question about monster arts: is the templating of them finished already? Am I to convert them as well? --Ngng 06:48, October 6, 2009 (UTC)

I'm not sure about that one, Mike's got some strong points against listing all tiers of everything but doing it in some places and not in others breaks the uniformity the templates are supposed to bring. I know you probably don't want to go through all the pages twice so we'll try to decide fast! Drake178 06:53, October 6, 2009 (UTC)

Heh! I've already done it once it's not that hard really. Ok. I'll wait then! --Ngng 07:20, October 6, 2009 (UTC)

Well in that case you can just leave the arts as they are and do the rest :P Drake178 07:25, October 6, 2009 (UTC)

Regular monster infobox Edit

Here's what i changed and how to activate it:

| race =

should replace

| family =

everywhere. it shouldn't include the word "Family" (so just "Chimera" or "Fly"). This has an awful lot of advantages compared to the old one. The family variable should be removed along with any notes about magazines (no point in having them there)

| drop 1 =

is the variable that, if deleted, activates the new layout, as long as it's there you'll only see the old one.

| loc1 =
| drop1a =
| drop1b =
| drop1c =
| drop1d =

are one line in the drop table, you'll obviously have to reference the same location multiple times for a lot of monsters. We'll figure out a way to distinguish them later on (the majority are union leaders vs normal monsters but this probably isn't always the case)

| quest1 =
| qdrop1a =
| qdrop1b =
| qdrop1c =
| qdrop1d =

are for quest appearances (will be displayed in a different color) if you know them. Note that there are no 100% drops in either version, if there are any regular monsters with 100% drops let me know and i'll do something about that. You can make up a variable for it yourself as well and i'll just add it to the template later, like "drop1e" or "drop1 100".

| guild1 =
| task1 =
| task1type =
| task1amt =
| task1item =
| task1req =

are for the related guild tasks, valid task types are kill or item, anything else will be displayed "as is". req will be displayed "as is" in parentheses, if you fill it out (should contain the requirements for the task). amt is the amount of monsters you have to slay or the amount of items you need to collect, omit the whole line if it's a single item (see Lance of Longinus on the Rockgrater page.

Any notes about drops, magazines, or guild tasks should be removed from the pages as all that will now be included in the template.

For arts, either way is fine by me, just do all of them the same way, that's all that matters for me. Drake178 07:14, October 6, 2009 (UTC)

Oh and if you caption the capture text then that should be removed from the notes as well. You can also remove any and all name translations and multi-deadlock notes (possibly removing the entire Notes section from most of the pages), i'll solve both of these from the template tomorrow. Drake178 07:24, October 6, 2009 (UTC)
I'll wait for tomorrow then. So the concept is "semi-finalized"? --Ngng 07:36, October 6, 2009 (UTC)

No regular side quest/regular monster have static drops, the only ones which do are rares and boss monsters in side quests (like namul niram, lob omen, etc). This signature was complements of the chef! 07:20, October 6, 2009 (UTC)

As for the ordinary monsters I've also checked there's none with 100% drops anywhere. And I cannot add task stuff because I lack datasheets on them (if any) so we can do it later by hands. And for the arts... If you'll give me at least variables to turn them into, I'll be happy to do it! :) --Ngng 07:31, October 6, 2009 (UTC)

Sorry but there's one more minor thing about capture. Grand Rockgrater can drop Captured Rockgrater in Numor Mine. Am I to use Rockgrater{{!}}Captured Rockgrater in such cases instead of just capture? --Ngng 07:45, October 6, 2009 (UTC)

Yes, that's a perfect way of doing it. Drake178 15:57, October 6, 2009 (UTC)
I've uploaded png's of all the Emblems, including the couple of normal ones which are unused and also the Enemy / Special Characters emblems. I had to grab screenshots of the unused/special character/enemy emblems through manually editing the emblem lookup id in table 106 for Rush, works a charm! On a side note changing the Unique Stat String cross-ref ID (x-ref to table 111) in table 104, offset 0x1C of the record changes the displayed name of the Unique Stat on the character screen, I changed from 0x36 (bravery) to 0x37 (support) and Rush's Unique Stat name changed to Support! heh! This signature was complements of the chef! 08:17, October 6, 2009 (UTC)

OH SHIT! I just found the learnt skills for unique leaders! I've been looking everywhere for them, and it turns out they were in the most ridiculous of places, the Character Embedded Strings Cross-Ref table! I think I'm going to cry now! This signature was complements of the chef! 09:38, October 6, 2009 (UTC)

All the unique leaders now have complete New Mystic/Item Skill Battle Ranks and focus selection Battle Ranks up! Woot!! I can't confirm XBOX cause nobody even plays it these days lol so PC will do! This signature was complements of the chef! 19:31, October 6, 2009 (UTC)

Monster Races Edit

As much as i didn't want to do this we'll have to sooner or later, so might as well do it sooner. Monster Family categories are going out the window. The template will categorize by race, once we have the majority of the monster pages updated i'll start working on the references (such as transcluding the monster family page into the new race categories and reworking the magazine articles). Since i won't have a whole lot of time in the next few days any help is welcome. I'm also still working on the monster templates, but the variables will stay now. That means the arts are ready as well so everything can be updated in one go. I'll still be messing around with the layouts but that doesn't affect anything. Drake178 18:58, October 7, 2009 (UTC)

On a second thought, i'll create the categories right now. Drake178 20:03, October 7, 2009 (UTC)

I see one possible downside of this: the pages of monster categories are going to contain additional trash info (one of the wiki engine shortcomings). There will be table of monsters plus the same monsters in untabled manner. Other than that for me it's alright!

Ah, and don't worry about actually filling the pages. We'll do it, not a big deal. --Ngng 07:30, October 8, 2009 (UTC)

Monster Drop Notes Edit

I just realized you removed them from the boss and rare templates. Please find a way to put them back if you still want to use your version of the drop layout, or else that layout version should be reverted to the old one until everything is updated to mine. Example: Namul Niram (Story) only drops its Remnant Fragment on the XBOX, but with your version there is no way to indicate that in the article (mine has at least 2 different ways to do that :P) Drake178 21:39, October 7, 2009 (UTC)

On that note, i've killed the Seven enough times at the bases (to get all their hearts but Hannah's) to approximate the Heart of Loyalty drop rate to ~10-15%. I doubt they changed the core drop handling code between the versions so i think it's much more likely that they simply modified the drop chances. A likely scenario is that the pc herb formula drops are also herb formula drops on the XBOX they just have a non-100% drop rate. The herb formula is basically just a workaround to add drops with set percentages outside the normal drop handling code, as you always have the formula and the item req drops are unaffected by linking monsters. Off the top of my head the drops i know to not be 100% on the XBOX are all the hearts of loyalties at the bases, all the remnant/idol fragments, and all the evil charms. Drake178 22:01, October 7, 2009 (UTC)

You take care of the infoboxes I'll leave them to you. Just use the ideas that I had in place but implement them your own way :) And yes I realized how the herb formula thing worked heh, because you only have 1 static drop record you obviously can only have 1 static component, therefore using the daily/weekly drop records you can manipulate the chance without changing the code. And yes I realized that Herb Formula was just a dummy thing, but because it said I added it anyhow as useless as it was :) If they weren't 100% drops on XBOX and they are on PC it's mostly they were changed due to New Game+. I've got a few long days of work ahead of me so I won't have much time to do alot either, so you go ahead with your infobox scheme, I'll take a look at them and if there is anything to add or might need changing I'll amend them but other than that yours is looking fine. It's probably best to keep them as consistent as possible anyway. This signature was complements of the chef! 07:42, October 8, 2009 (UTC)

Two questions to you guys:
  • Rare infobox is quite different from the normal infobox. I thought you're gonna make them look more similar (at least from variables perspective). While my code is finished and the text is ready I'm a bit anxious if you're gonna change them (variables) in the future so the upcoming work will become futile. Please clear my anxiety somehow.
  • What about arts? Am I to go add them as well? Is there a page I should look at as an example? Or am I just to wait a little longer for these arts?

--Ngng 09:07, October 8, 2009 (UTC)

The rare and boss infoboxes are different dropwise because you obviously only have a single set of drops to display. On the other hand they have special drops that common monsters don't, and i included some extra in case some of them do appear multiple times. The only thing that can be worth changing in their template is renaming the drop variables (mine) from common-uncommon-rare-very rare to a-b-c-d. You did Bai Ze using Mike's version of the drop layout rather than mine (probably because i didn't document it yet like i did the regular one). I'll ask you this before i document it though, is it more comfortable to name the drop variables by their rarity as they are now, or is it better to name them consistent with the regular template? I'll redo Bai Ze with my current variables so you get a clearer picture of what i mean. You can do the arts anywhere, they won't change and even if they do the current variables will stay, these look like the following:
| art 1 = Gandiva
| art 1 br3 = 0
| art 1 br4 = 80
will result in
i've made a separate enemy art template and just use that from all 3 infoboxes passing them the parameters you see above. It works like this: br1-5 are the BRs the art tiers are learned at, you have to put in 0 for the one the monster starts with, and then just put up any others it uses. If it skips one (say goes straight to III from I) then skip the br2 variable and just use br1 and br3. Max BRs are not included because i don't see any reason for it unless a monster actually loses an art completely after a certain BR that's not 999, if there is any such monster i'll put in one more variable for that, otherwise this is the simplest way to do it.
On a side note, i've changed all templates to use the already filled out kitchen note variable for the picture caption if present, and only use the caption variable if there's no kitchen note. Multi-Deadlock works differently for rares/bosses and regulars in that it defaults to No for regulars and up to 3 Unions for rares/bosses, so if this is the case you can omit the variable completely. Otherwise for rares/bosses that can't Multi-Deadlock put in | deadlock = 0, or else the amount of unions the monster can deadlock. This latter works the same across the board. Drake178 21:13, October 8, 2009 (UTC)
Apparently i only put the kitchen note caption into the regular template the first time around. That's been rectified now. Drake178 22:25, October 8, 2009 (UTC)

So everything is being taken care of (right this moment by NinjaArs and myself). After the process some pages will still need some attention (multi-deadlocks, magazines in notes, etc...). That will be also resolved in time. Plus I'll update some boss pages that I've skipped on the first go. I hope everything will be good. If you'll need anything like this xls -> template transfer in the future I can help with anything. It distracts me from the bad weather! :) --Ngng 19:40, October 9, 2009 (UTC)

Monster drop testing... Edit

I've updated two pages Terrapest and Bai Ze with generated information. Please suggest something. I can see that at least in Terrapest case I can get rid of 3 similar drops (their only dirrence is in min drop amount). I will do that if only you'll approve this result. --Ngng 10:02, October 8, 2009 (UTC)

I've updated Terrapest to contain only unique drop sets. --Ngng 15:36, October 8, 2009 (UTC)

Art learning/focus, guild task types Edit

I took a look at Duke of Ghor and i have to say it's fugly as it is now but i assume you're still working on it so i'll wait until you finish :D

Monster infobox: I left out the Collector as a task type intentionally because i plan on listing all related guild tasks there not just the collector ones (ie Lance of Longinus is created from Rockgrater Tail hence it's listed on the Rockgrater page). But even without that, Task 50 of the Union of the Golden Chalice (obtain a Warrior's Broadsword) has to be listed for Jhana Fighter, it's an item task, but it's not a The Collector type task. Since i'd like uniform presentation of this everywhere i'll probably end up having to template this and have a separate variable value for every task type. I'm fairly sure i can come up with something like the enemy art template (the table for the regulars looks really bad), but until then it'd be easier to omit the task type and just keep the "Obtain a xyz". Not to mention i just took a look at the Rockgrater page and it seems you messed something up, so have fun figuring out what it is :P Drake178 23:35, October 9, 2009 (UTC)

You know how many hours I spent debugging your messy statements because the closing braces are in camo gear :D I'll figure it out though, I've managed to make sense of most of your brace work so it shouldn't be hard to fix whatever it is. And my focus/new skills looks awesome, you don't have time to be complaining about it's sexiness because you have 128 bit wide bitmask index's to implement :D You have my permission to criticize it when you have that working though!!! haha ;D This signature was complements of the chef! 04:50, October 10, 2009 (UTC)
They're not in camo, they have a purpose to be that way that you didn't realize, judging by your leaving the segment {{#if:{{{task1|}}}|}} in there, which does nothing and could have been simply deleted. It was there to either make the task not appear at all if the task field is not filled out, or put it up as an unknown task in that case (can't recall which), hence it's closing braces were at the end of the list item. It has no effect the way it is now and doesn't do anything either. Here are the things i consider when building those statements:
  1. Every branch must be explored.
  2. Every variable must have a fallback value if not present.
  3. Try to use the least possible amount of variables (ie for taskXweapon you should have used taskXitem) to make editing more consistent.
  4. No unnecessary spaces (you're full of it :D), use nbsp to render non-breaking ones and a single normal space to render normal ones. code-space-nbsp-space-code renders 3 spaces...
  5. for lists, the closing braces of an item must be followed by the opening braces of the next item without a line break else skipping an item will put in a line break in its place anyway, breaking up the list.
The last one is the worst for later editing the template, i always copy+paste the part i'm editing to notepad and do all the editing there. I usually add those line breaks back in while editing and then remove them when i'm done. Anyway, i'll write a guild task template :P Drake178 16:10, October 10, 2009 (UTC)
Oh, and {{:ifexpr is a big no-no. This code breaks if the value is not a number for whatever reason, i rather do an extra #ifeq. Drake178 17:30, October 10, 2009 (UTC)

Edit: Fixed the monster box. Forgot to set fallback value for task2amt for ifexpr statement, apparently comparing a null value to an integer throws an error who woulda known :D This signature was complements of the chef! 04:59, October 10, 2009 (UTC)

training cademan for Ataraxian Edit

please advice how to train Cademon to be Ataraxian

If you're just starting to train him (ie. only have the starting arts) then simply don't use Herbs and Potions (turn them off). Personally i wouldn't even bother learning Traps but if you do make sure you don't use that either. Keep using combat arts and evocations until he changes to Mysticknight and you're pretty much set. At this point you can start using Potions if you want (although i'd advise you not to), but definitely stay away from Herbs and Traps. Once a Mysticknight, the only classes Caedmon can change into (other than Ataraxian) are Scout and Wanderer, which require Herbs and Traps respectively, if you don't train those then he'll become an Ataraxian when the stat/dual 2H requirements are met. Once he's an Ataraxian you can train up his item skills, he can't change into anything else. If he does become a Scout you'll have to grind both his combat and mystic arts above your item arts for him to change. Drake178 01:42, October 10, 2009 (UTC)

Harvesting chance Edit

The reason I think we should put Chance: None, or something of the sort, is to differentiate between harvesting spots which we are pretty sure give no effect and those we haven't tested yet.Brokenstorm 20:56, October 15, 2009 (UTC)

Problem is chance none infers that there is a chance to dig nothing, which all dig points have >= 10% of digging nothing. Also it is unnecessary because there are fewer points with something rather than nothing. I haven't been able to find a listing of the harvest effects in the tables so they might be specific to the actual map files themselves. It's better to leave them the way they are because it's easier to read. This signature was complements of the chef! 00:35, October 16, 2009 (UTC)

Bandit Harvesting, yet this is still unanswered Edit

I've been playing around with the Bandits for a while and I may be wrong (I hope so) but, once you spawn a bandit, I would place a thesis that its existance now no longer appears again in the game once you kill it and completely leave the associated map. The only difference between a bandit and a nonrespawnable rare monster besides the money and guaranteed items, is its ability to be respawned as long as you don't leave. Once you truely leave the area from which a particular Bandit was created, only a "single serving" dig spot is now left for the remainder of the game where each bandit spawned and you can now have Mr. Diggs grab a few more gold and thats it. I want to be wrong but I havn't proven myself any different. Each bandit that has been spawned now has a dig spot like a tombstone marker but Bandit is now gone forever... So, its respawnable but only at your current play (In my attempts to prove otherwise) and man it just won't produce again except the "tombstone marker which were never there before until bandit spawned. I can capture pictures of each Bandit location and associated dig spot remaining but unfortunately its a one shot respawnable deal. arg!!! Please tell me otherwise! --Nirromyug 12:57, October 20, 2009 (UTC)

I can say that this is not true (at least for the XBOX). I'v spawned and killed the bandit in the catacombs multiple times (while searching sledgehammer, so yes, I did leave the location). Same for the one in Wyrmskeep. - Merthos 13:14, October 20, 2009 (UTC)
I never killed a bandit in the PC version yet, but on the XBOX i've killed all of them except the Wyrmskeep one multiple times in the same playthrough. Every single one, and not by respawning within the same area but exiting to the world map. And i've never seen a tombstone marker like the one you describe, so a screenshot of that i'd very much like to see. For the record, i have the PAL XBOX version. Drake178 13:15, October 20, 2009 (UTC)

Page deletion Edit

Please only mark those pages (see Category:Candidates for speedy deletion) instead of moving them. That's easier and faster to find. Thanks. - Merthos 09:25, November 12, 2009 (UTC)

Deleting my edit Edit

Mike, I would like to know why you deleted my comment about the difficulty (and just some info) about Bluejaws on the Interlude:Athlum page in the main story walkthrough. You had just mentioned defeating Bluejaws in the paragraph so it was relevant to the text, and although I can understand moving it to another page (like the actual Bluejaws page), I see no reason to just delete it outright.

Community content is available under CC-BY-SA unless otherwise noted.