Talk: Mystic Arts

The majority of the information here seemed to be repeating itself so I condensed it to make it look more like the Combat Arts page. The only thing missing are the Mighty / Godly modifiers. After doing the combat arts I was unable to find any consistent rule of thumb for applying them so I left them out. Sometimes two different characters will have the same ability and one will have mighty slash and the other won't. Maybe they can live in their own section under each modifier type (Slash, Maul, etc...) until we figure out how they work. Gaebriel 20:29, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

Where's the info about Crimson Flare? Blackrose28 08:25, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

I dont' think that exist Sarmu 08:29, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

If there wasn't an art like that so how the name "Crimson Flare" come up in the first place? In my country,they say : "If there isn't fire,why smoke exist?" Blackrose28 08:33, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

It exists and I have it, I just have not a freaking idea what triggered it, I wonder who added Crimson Flare to the page though : [1] - Alaera 19:54, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

Yea, I should read forum more often Sarmu 16:18, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

Somebody want to add AP requirements for PC, which are vastly higher? (Whiteout I is like 120AP IIRC) PHJF 03:22, 18 April 2009 (UTC)

Crimson Flare

The leader has to use Grenade Impact I-V spells (Invocations), one unit an Invocations, one unit an Evocations, one unit a Hexes and one unit a Psionics spell.

Arcana Arts

AP requirement to trigger Arcana arts is cost to use Arcana with union command, ie Use Fatal Eclipse, which requires full union morale and right arcana trigger conditions to be met at end of previous turn. So basically the same as Unique Art/Remnant Weapon Art full morale trigger, union picture will behave in exact same manner with orange haze.

Fortunately since there aren't too many fights where the conditions for the command appearing are all met at the end of one turn together, Arcana arts can be triggered by force through 1) union command chain matching the learning criteria for current level Arcana you have learnt previously and 2) for all arcana above whiteout Union out of deadlock, which when performing flank/rear attacks unhindered meets their lock condition to trigger. If union is locked before they act, and lock is still active when union is up Arcana will fail and be performed as individual arts by each member.

Blackout & Whiteout don't seem to have a lock condition as they can be force triggered while in both lock or out of lock simply by command chain required to learn current or higher level. Command chain that meets current learnt Arcana level nearly always forces an Arcana trigger even with less than required AP. As you level up art trees used in Arcana chains, Arcana triggers can be forced with substantially less AP than art requires for command to appear, when forcing an Arcana art trigger it will cost total AP to perform union command chain of individual arts making up the Arcana. Ie. Blackout V can be forced with Permafrost V (30AP) + Spark V (6AP) + Caustic Blast V (21AP) which is total cost of 57AP for union, even though Blackout V costs 75AP to use union will force the trigger at total cost of commands used to trigger it, mind you it can be done with 40-45AP but higher tier arts will almost always force the Arcana to trigger at your current level, chance of learning higher level of same Arcana art is much lower and more often than not union will just perform the arts one by one. Knowing the required arts for your current level makes pulling off intentional Arcana Art use satisfying and painless, and since forcing Arcana has no union morale requirement to meet which the command does, they can get you out of nearly any situation.

Unions can be also can be setup to the makeup of certain Arcana arts, with members who have higher usage of invocations/evocations, and a leader with higher invocations usage for triggering frequent Blackout's. If you want to force an Arcana which the leader art group required to cast it, has low usage (ie. hexes usage higher than invocation usage, invocation and evocation usage similar), simply disable hex/evo art trees, and only enable highest tier invocation art that is required for Blackout V, which is Permafrost V and it'll trigger almost every time other 2 members use invocations in chain :) I wouldn't use Wildfire IV/Gren Impact III to trigger it, they'll more often than not trigger art spread recalculation from their high AP cost, and Gren Impact/Atk/Atk or Wildfire/Spark V/Atk are useless. Permafrost V AP cost and setup time nearly always result in full union mystic art chain everytime on Give Them All you Got command.

Question about requirements of arcana arts. For example a union has 4 units and i'm trying to use blackout. In a fight, if i have a command that allows all 4 units to use invos (leader correct art), will blackout trigger? Or will it only trigger if exactly 3 ppl (with leader) can use evo/invo arts?

It will trigger with at least 3 (that covers 4 and 5 too). You also need to have enough AP to cast the Arcana (which is why it usually doesn't work in the first round). Also not all leaders that know Invocations can trigger and learn Blackout, but i assume you checked that already. Drake178 17:03, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

Leader/ Arts Table

Is there somewhere on this wikia a page, that shows which leaders learn (or start with) which art types (and learning BR)?

Nope, there isn't. If you go into the specific arts though(ie. Restore), they do list the characters that can use them. Drake178 07:03, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Yes, i did that. I had some leaders learn some arcana arts the last few days, so it does work, but i didn't check availabe AP at that time. I'll do more testing with Blackout (as it's the easiest arcana to trigger with 3 units) and watch for AP when it does activate.

But how should i beat the quest The Ladies of Bloody Alice, when i can't trigger an arcana in first turn? They kill at least two of my unions in one turn, after i killed one of their boss type unions, so i can't deal enough damage in second turn to kill more of them, besides my moral droppes to far down at this point, so i take even more damage and deal less. Zarathustra01 17:25, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

You can trigger one if you manage to make a union that has enough starting AP to cast one (put 5 people in it). Trigger commands can also be there if you go in with less unions (can probably just Gae Bolg them that way). Drake178 18:10, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

Easier method is use Battlefield Remnant Weapon Arts, such as Zeal's Virtue or Megalore. You will have Megalore with Pagus, and if you stay the first turn you'll have enough AP to drop it on the battlefield, for the next 2 or 3 turns. I use Snowblind or Zeal's Virtue usually but they are all the same. On the last turn you might get an Arcana. My previous attempt went like this: Gaou's union stay first turn, other unions attack/use psionics to raise battlefield morale to max (bluff/addle) and retreat flare which setup the conditions to use a Remnant WA or an Arcana (high battlefield morale). Zeal's Virtue second turn. Zeal's Virtue third turn. Zeal's Virtue fourth turn. Blackout fifth turn.Mikeyakame 02:04, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Arcana usage ??

Can we use any arcana arts(i mean arts that they've learnt) with just three characters in same unions.enough AP,and morale ? Ex: can we use Crimson Flare with three chars,david set as leader and leanrt CrimsonFlare,with right conditons.can he use it ? --125.212.129.53 04:11, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

Yes. Drake178 07:12, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

But as said there are specific requirements for the command to show up this way (see Battle Commands#Arcana commands). - Merthos 08:05, 15 July 2009 (UTC) still can't see crimson flare in your link,drake xD but if u say so i'll try :D--JiangWei Cloud 12:19, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

That's because noone added it yet, but it's the same as the other ones. Drake178 12:41, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

Mystic Art Post Execution Splash

Occasionally after executing a mystic art, a "splash" occurs near the casters feet. Has anyone ever done a correlation study with this "splash" effect Vs. Mystic Chance occurences. I have been trying to watch for this, then watch post battle mystic art advancement for that specific character. I could swear there is a connection between the two. 70.190.165.172 12:01, September 21, 2009 (UTC)

It happens during other events too not just mystic arts. It could symbolize stat up/mystic chance/etc but not exactly sure myself. This signature was complements of the chef! 12:11, September 21, 2009 (UTC)

Thanks, at least I know I'm not *completely* deluding myself now.70.190.165.172 12:21, September 21, 2009 (UTC)

i have been observing this splash when executing mystic arts and i have a theory that when its done it grants the next unit in line an automatic success on critical trigger that or its just a bonus to the official reason for it. someone confirm please???68.96.235.73 21:02, February 28, 2010 (UTC)

Dual Wielding magic

Right now I have an enchanted demonblade equipped on rush which for a weapon gives the most amount of magic. Now if I dual wield let's say two runic executioners what will my magic value be? I read somewhere its the full value of magic on the main hand plus half the magic from the off hand which would give me a magic value of 125 + 62.5 = 187.5. Is this true?

Follow up question is does the mystic +5 ability from the runics stack, add, or just give the one ability? So would I get +69% to magic damage, 60%, just the 30% from the main hand or 45% by halfing the off hand bonus? Espinadoboko 10:27, May 26, 2010 (UTC)

I don't know what, if any, effect dual wielding has on your mystic attacks. My first guess would be that you get the main hand mystic attack value and that's it. The two mystic +5 effects on the other hand do fully stack, although i can't recall off the top of my head whether it was additive or multiplicative (i think it was additive, ie +60%). Drake178 22:46, May 29, 2010 (UTC)

Ok I'm back to confirm that after much testing I can safely say that dual wield does improve your magic attacks. I used melle stance, no accesories, no other teammates, and faced Bai Ze over and over collecting data on how much each magic attack did to him. I tested this with just an optimal tataraichi+3 and then mixed in a superlative splitter for the dual wield. I know there is a small random factor but that's why I collected a lot of data of the same spells damage range and compared it to when I dual wielded. Single target spells did about 4 K more damage, and union spells did 2K more damage just about when I was dual wielding.

You can also look at the formation power level. When I just had the OT on I had 155 attack, 54 defense, 140 mystic, and 71 magic defense. When I added the splitter I gained 45 attack, 4 defense, 38 mystic, and 4 magic defense. That 45 attack and 38 mystic is exactly half of what the superlative splitter has in values.

The only question now is what would be the best magic dual wielding equipment. The aura/parrying tataraichi has the best mystic and you can find one of its earlier forms with a +3 attached to it so even better. But would 2 runic splitters be better then a aura tataraichi+3 combined with a runic splitter? You would have 157 magic with two Runic Splitters and 2 mystic arts+5 abilties vs over 200 mystic and a mystic art+5 ability. Time for more grinding and testing...Espinadoboko 16:10, June 1, 2010 (UTC)

Second Chance

Ok, so should we leave in-game description in place, even if it isn't entirely correct? Basically, Second Chance is a totally different, "Heal everything" effect - it can even remove Enthrall and Curse statuses (Demigod gave me a nice helping hand to test this). So, it's a) Revive if cast on a KO'd union, or b) Heal all HP and clear *all* possible statuses if cast on a live union. It is also a special Art in the sense that it can be used on both alive and KO'd targets - all other Arts are either heal or revive, not both (so I don't think Drake's changes to Effect page are making any sense). --Just dont do it 19:02, May 30, 2010 (UTC)

Revive = Recovery + Resurrection, if this was not the case all Revive arts would bring you back at 1 hp. I figured it was common sense that if they also revive they heal less than a similar rank Recovery only art would. Second Chance is not different at all, you won't see it appear unless you either need healing, cures, or resurrection, it just happens to be viable for all of them. And while we're in this argument it also does NOT clear Enthralled (it does clear Cursed), not to mention that it also clears almost all positive statuses too. The only valid point i see here is the fact that Second Chance can also appear when you don't need either Revive or Clear Status Ailments (ie heal only), which is the only difference between it and any other revival/status clear art. I'll think about it, but i don't want to add a hidden Recovery effect just because it can be used to only heal, especially considering the unique nature of this art (it has its own battle command and will not appear in a regular command chain).

As for the Effect page, i was a bit more tired than i usually am when i made that change, it should make much more sense now.

Here is the complete list of what statuses are cleared by Second Chance:

• Unit Statuses: Blacked Out, Petrification, Burned, Shocked, Frozen, Acid Burn, Protection, Physical Eater, Orphic Ward, Mystic Eater
• Union Statuses: Paralyzed, Silenced, Poisoned, Cursed, Decoy, Stealth, Invincible, Charge Up, Charge Down, STR Up, STR Down, INT Up, INT Down, SPD Up, SPD Down, ATK Up, ATK Down, DEF Up, DEF Down, Evasion Up, Evasion Down Drake178 21:59, May 30, 2010 (UTC)

Well, I see your point regarding revive and heal - but it still doesn't change the fact that SC have some unusual properties and that they (IMO) are worth mentioning somewhere. Maybe we can add a few words to its description page (and leave the tables as they are)? Then again, if we'll follow the logic for its battle command - it's geared towards healing, not revive. The command appears only for Groggy unions (statuses, etc. are absolutely irrelevant), if there are just KO'd unions, its command will not appear -- there will be only "Bring them back!" for regular revive Arts. So there's only one possible Revive scenario: if a Groggy union is KO'd before SC, then it'll be revived without reassessing/changing Arts (or maybe two: if a Groggy union is healed with another union before SC, so it will retarget to another union. But I'm not sure if this could happen).

PS: Yeah, I was wrong with Enthralled. --Just dont do it 05:33, May 31, 2010 (UTC)

PPS: How about adding another Effect to clearly state SC bounds? I.e. a line "Second Chance" to the effect table, along with all the relevant info (heal, revive, list of cleared statuses)? Maybe it's also worth mentioning that it does have a huge heal margin (or it's "forced" full-heal) - for player unions it's always a full-heal up to 9999hp, but its limits can't be seen even on enemy unions (i.e. like Enlightened Hannah SC'ing Hinnah for ~350k hp - full-heal again). --Just dont do it 05:47, May 31, 2010 (UTC)

Hmmm, did some more tests. SC do appear for only KO'd unions, although a bit rarely and not in every possible case. But it always appear for Groggy union(s) if a union with SC have enough AP. --Just dont do it 15:29, May 31, 2010 (UTC)