Talk: Effect

i think we can fill in alot more of this chart, im pretty sure that for any attack/resist skill, it's a 5%bonus per +1 and i think they all max out at +5, for a max bonus of 25%, does anyone have anything that contradicts this? i believe my info is coming from what i gleaned off of the gamefaqs board and what people were posting was in the jap guide. Akuthia 03:59, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

Yea alot of these can be added, I just haven't got around doing it Sarmu 05:03, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

I'm not sure if there is a Flame Resist and Defence, I think there is one for Venom, but not for frost/flame/thunder/lytic. Also not sure about the difference between Flame and Flame Attack, I think it's just problem with translation. Sarmu 02:35, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

There is a Venom defence, it doesn't hurt to leave the others in for now. We can always remove them when most of the table is full. Also, thanks for finishing off the anchors Sarmu! I was so tired last night I nearly fell asleep half way through!Andrea 09:54, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

no problem about the anchors, thats the easy part for me, literally 10 second job Sarmu

To make this chart a little more user-friendly, perhaps we could combine those long groupings of similar skills together? For example:

Effect	Description
[Creature Family] Bonus	Additional damage against monsters of that [Creature Family]. (Albic Qsiti Bonus, Amoeba Bonus, Anthrovore Bonus, Azhdaha Bonus, Butterfly Bonus...)

Eunomiac 17:34, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

Looks good to me, btw I think it's 20% bonus. As to counter i'm not too sure, maybe more change to counter or something Sarmu 17:37, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

Maybe we need a "tentative" or "unconfirmed" font style for information we're not perfectly clear on? This way we can put the data where people can find it, instead of having to wait until everything is 100% certain before moving it from discussion to the main article. (This is particularly true of Formation requirements on the PC, which I keep finding in the Discussion pages because the author isn't completely certain he's right.) I'm very new to this wiki though, so I'll just throw the idea out there for now. Maybe after I've mucked around for a bit I'll see if I can set something up. Eunomiac 19:46, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

Okay, done. I also threw together an unconfirmed template (Template:Spec) and used it with the creature family bonus. Eunomiac 14:25, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

What about "Counter"? I see that in a lot of the class descriptions (i.e. Swashbuckler) and have no idea what it does! Eunomiac 17:17, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

Sometimes when a unit within one of my unions gets attacked a couple of times in a row i see that there is a "groggy" listed under the unit, is it actually some sort of effect? 58.26.207.170 03:39, 16 May 2009 (UTC) 0349 GMT, 16 May 2009

Kind of. You can get grogggy in long fights or when resurrected with item arts. Such units are very frail and usually die when hit (similar to Instakill but a regular attack is enough). - Merthos 06:46, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

Anyone have an idea, what Trigger Rate does? I don't know if there are weapons or items in game, taht somehow "trigger", but could it increase the chance, that the wearers arts "trigger" (appear) more often?

i assume it increases the chance to get a critical trigger. Drake178 01:11, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

I don't think so, because there are already effects with "critical" in description and they don't mention "trigger" anywhere. I'll equip my whole party with Baalukette and then take note of any differences.Zarathustra01 10:26, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

All those items also say [Critical Offense/Defense] Success +xy, which the way i see it has no effect on triggering them. Drake178 10:32, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

But then again, what does that mean? Does it give you more time to hit the correct button, when you have the chance for a crit Off/Def and auto mode is more often successful, if you set this to "auto" in options?

I'd say it's probably the latter and only affects "auto", getting more time to push the button is another effect (Slowdown). Drake178 10:45, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

I did some searching on google. Some say it increases the chance of the crit minigame to appear, while someone else says, it's about arcane arts triggering. I'll check different translations of this item later today, to see if that clarifies this issue. Zarathustra01 11:05, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

I think I've found the answer. When you go to Gaslin Caves in the beginning of the game, Trigger Chances are explained, see here: Crit Minigame
So Trigger Rate +x should increase the chances of a Trigger happening, whenever you crit (OFF or DEF). This doesn't increase chances of crits itself, as i've seen a lot of crits without trigger chances. So i need items with Critical Offense/Defense to crit more often. I'll report again, if i find some new info. Zarathustra01 11:49, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

Update: German text is "Trefferchance", which ruffly translates into "hit chance", that's nothing like trigger (i'm german). French translation is "taux de déclenchement", which is again something like Trigger rate...

Do several items with +x effects stack?Zarathustra01 10:26, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

Yes, they do. Drake178 10:32, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

Anyone know, how Ap Charge works? For example, AP Charge +1. Does the union, that has one char equipped with it gain 1 AP per attack, that person does? or is it like 1% of damage converion to AP? Or does the number of hits (like 2 hits with double strike) influence this?

it probably uses the same increments as Charge Up (+1=5%, +9=50% of AP Init), although i didn't do much testing with it. AP Charge +x on Termination should give you this amount of AP every time an enemy union is terminated (may be only if the killing blow was dealt by the char with this effect, but probably not). AP Charge +x on Damage multiplies this by an unknown factor. Rush (Init AP 10) equipped with the Rubber Soul (AP Charge +3 on Damage) got 1 AP for around every 350-400 damage done when i was testing combat arts. This effect is not modified by any other +AP Init accessories/ablities(?), only the base AP Init counts. It only affects a single character, ie. if in an union only that one character's AP Init will count, and only his damage will restore AP. Double Strike does more damage due to its 2 attacks so it will give back more AP. Monsters' max hp doesn't make a difference either, if you hit for 6k and they only have 1 hp you'll still get the AP for a 6k hit. Drake178 07:14, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

I remember coming across a special case of this. I cast Blackout V with David (kelpie's blessing ap charge on termination) and Glenys (rubber soul) as part of the Synergy, against Icy Idol in Seventh Path when there was 5 other unions with it, and after dealing ~70-80K damage and taking out the 5 Glaganos? unions, the unions AP charged by roughly 550-600AP and I could never really figure out why. It just clicked to me this is probably the case, when any AP Charge accessory or class bonus is used in an Arcana Synergy it compounds the effect! Mikeyakame 07:54, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the comments, so it seems that AP Charge +1 won't restore more than one AP on low BR, so it's rather useless in beginning of the game, as Accessorys with +x AP and +x AP init will have higher effects. So does the charge % depend on damage dealt or Init AP? In your examples, it seems rather like damage dealt counts.

Both count, but your AP Init (base) will grow slower than your damage so you'll likely see more effect with damage increase. Drake178 14:07, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

[Mace] vs [Hammer] (and not [Maul])

I went through the whole history for this article to figure out the sources of some of these effects and i think i managed to sort most of it out. I marked a few with ***, i don't think these actually exist. The only one i wasn't able to sort out is Effect#Mace. The only reference to this effect is on the class pages, the Bludgeoner class gives this, i assume it increases mace effectiveness. However, none of the items that do this use this effect, they all use Effect#Hammer instead (Divine Mace, Onionhead, Power Belt just to name a few). The page history tells me that Maul was renamed to Hammer because of this (i readded it earlier). My question to Sarmu: is it possible that the Bludgeoner class actually uses the Hammer effect as well? In that case we can remove Mace altogether and change the reference on the class page. I know it's confusing (probably a different person was translating the Effects and the Weapon Types), but i rather keep the item effects intact and put a proper description on the effect page explaining the situation than change all the items to give Mace bonus (which people would keep correcting and we'd keep reverting it). Drake178 21:59, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

Slowdown

Does Slowdown really do that? If so, what exactly does Giant Press do? Drake178 21:41, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Giant press does a lot of damage, that what it does :D. I believe the slowdown effect applies to a critical offense chain when performing Giant Press. It's one of those not exactly useful effects, that sounds cool but doesn't do much. Mikeyakame 03:49, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

Occurence +x

Any experiences with [Added Effect] Occurence + x? Does it mean that for example "Blackout" appears more often in command menu, or that Blackout is triggered more often if the conditions are met (like leader using the correct invo spell and 2 other members invo/evo spells)?

[Added Effect] Occurrence: Raises the changes for weapon or art effects to trigger.. It has nothing to do with Blackout, but rather with Black Out. It simply means that weapons and arts that have an Effect will activate more often. The Nightbloom for example has the added effect of Silence, which with this ability will trigger more often. Drake178 16:58, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

I see seems i misunderstood, thanks for the clarification. Zarathustra01 17:05, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

Military Issue

I think this effect is still missing on the table. Does anyone know what this effect does? maybe it influences moral somehow? Or it it influences enemies, taht belong to some sort of military (like conquerers army)?Zarathustra01 23:27, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

I think that along with Extremely rare this is just a flavor text effect. Drake178 06:27, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

Flavor Text? What does that even mean!?

Just that. Instead of an empty box, it's a useless description. Zephyr135 22:04, November 21, 2010 (UTC)

Weapon +?

Ive read through alot of gamefaqs articles and different things here on wikia, but I can't seem to find out what weapon+ does.

It increases ATK, DEF, MYS, MDEF, EVA, and M.EVA (all of them). The reason it's not listed here is because its not an actual effect (although you may think of it as such). Anyway, the modifiers can be viewed here: User:Seattlebrian/weapon modifiers. Drake178 07:06, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

Ward Resist

What does Ward Resist do? Aside from Herbs or Lotions as they have 1 offense art. Fiyerite 16:37, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

it resist's enemy ward attacks. But since there are none we know of, it really does nothing useful at all. Mikeyakame 17:53, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

From what I know from playing other games, there's a possibility 'Wards Resist' somehow making wards more efficient. In an online RPG, an effect called 'Heal Resist' makes healing more efficient, (example: Heal resist -11% makes healing 11% more effective). I have no clue what 'Wards Resist' does either; wards don't heal nor inflict damage.

It's more likely they planned on having offensive wards, because there are 2 empty ward art slots in the Wards Skill. That's the only logical conclusion I can come up with because just like having Remedies Resist on one of the classes, it is a useless effect because there are no offensive Remedies either, but they probably originally planned on having one of the Remedies as an offensive art, which would have given the monsters with Remedies Skill an offensive remedies attack as well so the Remedies resist would have been useful. I think personally that when the Formations/Effects/Classes were figured out they were still umming and erring on the final Arts list for each Skill, so while in foresight they planned for these things for whatever reason they didn't see the light of day, and they neglected or forgot to adjust the class/formation effects to reflect the finalized arts. This signature was complements of the chef! 06:43, October 4, 2009 (UTC)

Overkill

Overkill ocurrs when a unit endures more than three times rather than twice of its HP. When the single damage between two and three times, the unit would be approaching death that you could see bottom left in battle scene. And this message I presumed by the War Dragon's Art, Blaster. little0741 13:27, 1 Feb 2010 (UTC)

I just watched Nora get Overkilled when she had 607 HP and received 1348 damage. Maybe the break point is somewhere in between? Vyx 08:45, May 16, 2010 (UTC)

Do instant kill effects also trigger the Overkill text? If so, then nevermind the above. I did not realize that Nobel Abelisks had instant kill on their normal attacks. Something else to keep track of from now on I suppose. Vyx 00:35, May 18, 2010 (UTC)

Actually... Whenever a unit takes damage, the union takes full damage but the unit only takes 30%. This is because if they took full damage every time, they'd be dead a lot of the time. So really, in order to Overkill a unit, you only need to deal 70% of that unit's max HP, which translates to about x2.3 unit HP to the union. If the Instakill effect is applied, then it will just show "KO" and "Overkill" without any damage dealt. I suffered a bunch of botches lately by placing Demi as a union leader. Fun. Zephyr 23:04, May 4, 2011 (UTC)

Morale Effects Unclear

The section on morale effects is a bit confusing right now, since it refers to unions for some entries and army for others. Which one should it actually be? Vyx 08:48, May 16, 2010 (UTC)

I should also add that the damage bonus/penalty is quite confusing and appears self conflicting even in the individual entries. How do you do 2x damage and 130% base damage at the same time for example? Vyx 10:02, May 16, 2010 (UTC)

The first lines of the morale effects (normal font size) are the ingame descriptions fished out from the game files, the rest are Mike's notes. The 2x damage comes from combining the high morale effect with the opposing side's low morale effect. Drake178 10:31, May 16, 2010 (UTC)

I propose then that the first line of the description be adjusted to always use army, in order to avoid confusion with the morale of individual unions. I think the 2x damage comment on super-high morale should also be removed or have a qualifer appended (e.g. at least), since it is not in fact an exact number. Based on the modifiers listed in smaller text alone, the overall base damage multiplier would be 1.3 x 1.5 = 1.95. Furthermore, the 8%/10% stat swings will then increase the multiplier to a much higher value that cannot be easily predicted unless we know the damage formula too (do we?). In its place, the warning that opposing army stats will simultaneously be cut should be sufficient, though I would like to duplicate that same warning to the other entries as well. What do you think?

As an aside, I've noticed that there are very few redirects for common in game terms on this wiki. Would there be any objections to having articles like Effects and Morale point here? Vyx 21:03, May 16, 2010 (UTC)

On second thought, perhaps Morale could use its own seperate article, to clarify the difference between army and union morale. Do we have details on what union morale does, aside from triggering special arts and the frequency of art commands? Vyx 21:31, May 16, 2010 (UTC)

No, we don't, and as a matter of fact we don't know exactly how the army morale works either. This is one of the reasons why the description is confusing, the original is included because that's what the devs left in the game files, and the notes are from Mike's analysis of the status effect table. It's never actually been thoroughly tested, and i don't think it can be without step-by-step code running. Drake178 03:55, May 17, 2010 (UTC)

If we know each monster's resistance to Slash/Pierce/Bludgeon/Maul damage types, we can test this with explosives that deal fixed damages. I see these resistances are listed for leaders and soldiers. Are they also available for monsters somewhere? Vyx 07:13, May 17, 2010 (UTC)

Duelist

The Duelist effect listed is wrong. It doesn't help with what happens after a successful Critical Defense, but instead gives the command "Stand your ground!". It's very likely a mistranslation from the JP version (as a few of things seem to be...) of the class effect "カウンター狙い" ("aim to counter"), which allows the unions to standby until they're attacked or they intercept the enemy. No morale loss if attacked. The command only shows up if a Mysticknight or Swashbuckler leads a union too. Haven't checked with Samurai/Lancer/Fencer as I've never had them on any of my teams yet. Allan the Deathknight never leads so I haven't checked with him either. I'll update with findings and screens once I get some time to play for extended periods of time for better observation and control. Zephyr 19:45, March 26, 2011 (UTC)

Effect Stacking

I know that effects can be stacked if you wear more than one piece of equipment which grant the same effect. But what about effects granted from class? And if they do stack can it exceed the maximum +5 limit?

Example:

Ninja class, dual wielding axe with 2 black belts. Total effect stack: [Dual Wield] + 15 [Axe] + 10

or it's just [Dual Wield] + 5 [Axe] + 5

I've been playing around with this, but don't have any solid results just yet (not enough repetitions and comparisons). From what I remember though, the effects from the accessories and class seem to stack. I stuck Emmy with STR255, ATK255x2 (a little cheating, but it's to eliminate as many variables as possible), Black Beltx2. I think she dealt more damage than without any accessories and with only 1 Black Belt on. But the thing is, I don't know if it's the full +45% or if it caps somewhere. I may have to drop her SPD as much as possible to get rid of all the extra hits in order to get nicer looking results. It'll take a while, but I intend on fully testing this. I've already started, but some things are annoying me at the moment. Zephyr 16:16, April 21, 2011 (UTC)

Formation bonus

What is the +% of a formation bonus. For example how much does Trident III give for the Combat arts+3?

The same as the equivalent bonus from other sources, unless otherwise noted. So for Trident III, the [Combat Arts] +3 effect is +10%. Zephyr (talk) 03:20, October 15, 2014 (UTC)

Fatal Blow?

It seems to me that all monsters of Fly and Manticore families may possess the Fatal Blow skill. May need more proof.--Gooray (talk) 16:16, November 22, 2014 (UTC)

The Fly, Demon, Manticore, and Wyvern families have Fatal Blow. It's linked to their class. Zephyr (talk) 18:43, November 22, 2014 (UTC)